One of the things that’s immediately noticeable about the ICE guys is they don’t look like cops. They seem to have no real uniform at all, actually, and variously dress either like total slobs or in camouflage. Cops wearing camouflage has become a common thing in the USA for a variety of reasons, and I’ve seen it occasionally in Canada too, though most police services still wear proper cop outfits.
I actually think this is very, very, very bad. It might not seem like a big deal, but it is.
It is, I think, easy to forget that the idea of having a civilian and professional police force is a rare thing in human history and in its modern incarnation is pretty new, historically speaking, and was developed to prevent, well, violence, especially violence between a militarized state and the people. To my mind - and I am no expert, so call me a shithead if you like - having the cops NOT LOOK LIKE SOLDIERS is amazingly important.
A professional’s appearance matters, and, sorry, I don’t trust a cop who doesn’t want to dress like a cop.
I agree. There’s no reason for police to ‘blend in’. They should stand out. And except for reasons of health, they absolutely should not be wearing masks. If some guy wearing a mask but not a uniform tries to break down my door, how am I to know not to shoot him in self-defense? I’ll probably get shot, too, but at least that first one through the door will be taking one for the team.
To the OP: ICE aren’t police officers, so I find the title and OP to be confusing. In NY and NJ, I never see actual police officers wearing camo, from what I’ve noticed. We have army guys in sometimes in camo (maybe National Guard?) hanging around various transportation hubs, but I don’t think they’re transportation cops.
Agreed. Police should wear,
1: Uniforms
2: That are clearly visible,
3: And clearly identifiable as police uniforms,
4: Which clearly identify which force they are a part of,
5: And which include clearly-visible personal identification information.
Further, anything they do while not in such a uniform should be regarded as outside of the scope of their duties. If I see someone not in such a uniform breaking down a door, for instance, I should be able to assume that they’re a burglar and react accordingly.
Sure. Again, we probably all agree. But how? I mean no disrespect to our friend the OP, but we might as well post “Police Officers shouldn’t murder people.”
I think maybe certain tactical-type units like SWAT or maybe the FBI sniper/counterterrorist/hostage rescue teams, or their state equivalents are justified in wearing camo uniforms.
But normal law enforcement doing normal sorts of law enforcement things in public and out in the open should absolutely be wearing distinct and recognizable uniforms.
And without masks- the only point of wearing a mask is to obscure the identity of the LEO, and that should never be something that’s ok. Badge numbers and faces should be clearly visible, and if they’re doing something they don’t want to be recognized doing, they should probably think hard about what it is, rather than just pulling up their mask and going about it. Kind of the law enforcement version of “Is this something you’d be proud to tell your grandmother about?” question.
If the OP is talking about ICE, then congress should eliminate all funding for ICE, and set up a new force, with new people, the head of which would have to be approved by congress. Require the new force to wear uniforms, etc.
For local cops, if local cops are wearing camo without any ID or signage that identifies them as cops, that’s a local issue. Outside of big cities, citizens have quite a bit of influence over local rules and regulations. I doubt that Mayberry cops wear camo, though. Maybe at the state police level?
Absolutely. I was just making a point that sometimes law enforcement does have some specific good reasons to wear military-style uniforms. And even then, they say “SWAT” or “FBI” or whatever, even if it’s in a subdued color scheme.
IMO this is one of the countless, and very predictable, ways over the years we enabled what Trump is doing right now. Trump didn’t invent cops indulging their special forces fantasies by cosplaying as soldiers on tax payer dime. It’s being going on for years, under democratic and Republican administrations at the federal level, and in democratic and Republican jurisdictions. It was always super sketchy and made our cops look (and feel) like paramilitary government killers not civilian protectors of the public. But there was never the political will to do so as it would appear anti “law and order”.
It’s a really small part of the shitshow we find ourselves in (the people who just got murdered would be have just as dead if the ICE thugs were not cosplaying as GI Joe) but if we ever get our the other side of this with our democracy intact (big if ) it should be fixed along with all the other things.
I don’t get this. In the (very very few) cases where there is a legitimate reason for heavily armed police officers break into someones home, then there is even more reason for them to be very obviously dressed in a way that makes it very clear they are police officers.
sniper
Possibly this might be the one exception but I’d argue the number of situations where it’s acceptable for the state to hide its representatives with high powered rifles in camouflage, so its citizens can be shot undetected, is almost nil in a functioning democracy.
Any advantages camo may or may not have when it comes to concealment are limited to various natural terrains. In urban or suburban settings, any dark clothing will do the exact same job.
You’d be surprised. I once played paintball and went to eat with a FBI agent who was a sniper on the regional SWAT-type team. (his wife was a lawyer and was friends with a friend of my wife’s (both also lawyers)) Anyway, he was saying that it’s not uncommon for VIP type situations like the Super Bowl for there to be snipers deployed. Mainly for counter-sniper type stuff. Anyway, he was mostly griping about how unreservedly awful it had been to be working the 2011 Super Bowl out in the ice and snow, but we were really curious WHY he’d been out in the ice and snow.
All I was trying to say is that there’s a possibility that those guys who are basically providing the lethal force part of law enforcement might have a legitimate reason for camo as part of that. Not saying it’s always justified, just that it’s a different set of circumstances and rules versus the everyday non-lethal sort of law enforcement.
Hell, I object to cops wearing military style fatigue/BDU type uniforms, regardless of the color. It’s nearly as militaristic to see a guy in combat boots, black fatigue pants, black fatigue top, and a flak vest with “POLICE” written in gold thread on the chest and back.
) it should be fixed along with all the other things.
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