If you can back it up with a cite, go ahead and use it in GQ.
Since this does involve a political issue though, make sure to stick with the facts and let’s not bring politics into GQ. There are other forums for that.
My post was poorly written. I was thinking of the possible obstruction charges for refusing to talk to the cop by remaining inside the house and refusing to come out or open the door. I got that concept conflated with the “you can’t prove it was me driving the car” comment.
Obstruction? For just not answering the door? Highly unlikely.
Don’t know about CA. I think a lot of places wouldn’t require you to receive the ticket or sign it. I can’t imagine that would apply anywhere for parking tickets.
Slightly related, famous YouTube. I know that cop.
No, but a parking ticket doesn’t count vs your drivers licence, it goes vs the vehicle.
BZZZZT! Wrong answer. They are crimes and when you are pulled over, you are under arrest. The officer only releases you on your own recognizance after you sign the citation, or if the officer decides to not file the charge against you for whatever reason.
Differs state by state.
Scenario 1: If running a stop sign is an arrestable offense in your state, he needs a warrant to come inside and arrest you. Or he can knock on your door and ask you to come outside to talk, then arrest you. That’s assuming he could see you well enough to establish that you were the driver of the car in the first place. If you were arrested, your defense counsel should be able to call his identification under those conditions into question.
Scenario 2: It’s interesting to say that neither of you fesses up to driving the car. That’s basically the right answer. It’s different than both of you denying that you were driving the car. If he asks you if you were driving, don’t lie to him, just don’t admit it. If he asks “Were you driving the car that ran the stop sign?” you can politely answer, “I’m sorry officer. It’s late and I’m tired. I don’t want to answer any questions. Please leave my property.” Then go to bed. You don’t owe him any answers. Neither does your wife. Don’t be caught in a position where you are talking to him from inside your house but he can claim you were actually on the porch when he arrested you. Maybe talk to him from behind a chain-locked door or through a window.
In a recent thread about Freemen on the Land, there were video clips of multiple instances of police smashing the car window of drivers who refused to provide their driver’s license and were instead spouting their legalistic gibberish. It was clear they were being arrested for obstruction.
Why do you think police will break car windows to forcibly remove drivers from a car, but let a driver inside a house go free?
ETA: Does it matter if the person who will not unlock the door declares: “I am not subject to your jurisdiction and demand to speak to your supervisor! I am a person, not a corporate entity!”?
A car is not a home. Well it may be for some, but I assume on public property it doesn’t matter.
State laws vary. In Texas you have to get out of your car if an officer tells you to. That’s how the Sandra Bland thing started.
Wait, so are you saying that in the scenario posited – car runs a stoplight, driver makes it inside home before the cops have an opportunity to stop him (and before the driver would have any chance of knowing he’s being pursued), and he doesn’t wish to answer the door – then the police in some states would have to let him go free because he was on private property when the police arrive?
No, I’m just saying they’d need a warrant to remove him from his home, but not from his car.
would this question fall under the fifth amendment?
Granted I think the laws may vary state to state, but there was a thread about this previously here:
It does not bode well for the driver. Interestingly in that thread from 2008, Max Torque identifies that there are only two non-arrestable motor vehicle offenses in TX.
The option he’ll most likely use is to get you talking; either through trickery or threats. If you’re not answering he may well start beating on the door threatening that he’ll break it down and arrest you if you don’t open up. It’s unlikely that he’ll actually be allowed to follow through, but it can be pretty intimidating to have an armed angry aggresive person screaming and smashing against your door and have nobody to call for help (other than more of his colleges who will automatically side with him and probably join in). A lot of people will fall for the threat and open up, then answer everything and anything asked in order to calm this guy with a gun down (“what choice do I have?” will be the question in your mind). I don’t think running a stop sign would motivate a cop to go that far, but other things will.
Under scenario 2, again he’ll try to get you talking. Depending on local law there will likely only be a few things he’ll need you to say or admit to in order to have enough to charge/ticket you; you probably won’t have to make the full confession you think you would. Just recently a fish and wildlife officer was telling me a story about a poacher we was interviewing by the riverside. He related that he while he had enough probable cause to search the guys car for poached fish, he didn’t have enough to go to the guy’s house and look in his freezers for more. Had he been able to get the bad guy to admit that he’d been to the location on mulitple proior occasions, he would have enough to go to and enter the guys house sans warrent. So it was the casual question of “even been here before” that the bad guy got lucky and answered correctly that saved him from a few extra charges. You never know what question the cop is going to use to get what he wants… and the more you talk the more likely he’ll catch you with the “gocha!” answer he needs.
No, since there’s one critical difference. in our OP "Unbeknownst to me the local LEO…"
vs:
“…a police officer is trying to pull you over, a…He just ignored the police car with flashing lights and sirens…”
That’s an interesting thread but the facts are different. In that thread, the person is knowingly evading police who are trying to pull him over with lights flashing for some period of time. In this thread, the police make no attempt to pull our driver over and he doesn’t even notice the police car has followed him into the driveway. He doesn’t know the police are there until they knock on his door. It’s a very different analysis.
Never a good idea to lie to police, but often a good idea to decline to say anything beyond stating your name and directing any inquiries to your lawyer.
I have to relate something that happened to me. This is relatively small town, so once the police know your face/car you’re done.
I was pulled over for a brake light out, and given a ticket for driving with only a permit. My road test was a week away, and I was going to the store for my mom. Yeah it was stupid, what was more stupid was that 3 days later I was again driving without my license (with the light fixed), and that same cop saw me. It was his day off and he was in his non-police vehicle. 2 days later, he came to my house while he was on-duty and gave me another ticket. I spoke to a police officer friend of mine, and he said that it was a jerkish move on his part.
2 weeks later, my daughter and I were at the mall, and that same cop saw us pull in. He waited 2 hours!! for us to come out (he actually told me that) and then pulled me over. By then I had my license and he let me go.
I requested a supporting deposition for each ticket, and he never supplied one, so the judge dismissed both tickets.
It was stupid to be driving without my license, but really, it sucks to live in a small town sometimes. Now when I’m driving and he sees me, he just waves and smiles.
Yeah, I lived in a small town once (a little over 10,000 people), and the police got to know most vehicles that would be out after 10PM on Saturday. Any unknowns were likely newcomers (the factory had high turnover). The newbies assumed like in the big city they were unlikely to get pulled over if they drove carefully, but almost anyone unknown and driving around bar closing time was likely to be pulled over. The cops gave a lot of DUI tickets. Of course, in my case it didn’t help hat the car I was driving belonged to a guy with 3 DUI’s (Ah, the good old days). Until they figured out I was usually driving because I didn’t drink, we got pulled over several times.
The snark about lane changes and race, yes, reflects that in Texas motor vehicle offense are arrestable offences. Many other places, simple driving infractions are not; they issue a summons. I guess the question in the OP is whether this would be hot pursuit or not. I suppose the police could claim the person appeared to be deliberately knowingly evading arrest, which would (I assume?) give them grounds to break down the door.
The alternative is to write the ticket and serve it to the owner of the car sometime later. Under the principle, “you can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride”, even if you get away in court, you still waste time and effort fighting the charge. I suppose they could also catch the car on the road next morning and impound it to “dust for fingerprints and other evidence”. You said you were not the driver, but we find no other prints on the car door, mirror, steering wheel, radio buttons or shift knob.
Yes, several Canadian provinces also have “produce the driver” laws. These were passed as an alternative to high-speed chases. If a vehicle evades the police, rather than chase through built-up areas at top speed, the police would go to the owner and say “produce the driver, or you answer the charges”. (Unless the car were stolen, one presumes). High speed evasion is an arrestable offense.