It seems that the locals there have a lot more confidence in the police than many others do. What I would find interesting is to do a crime report a year from now on that same area using those same borders and see if arrests spiked in the area and if so, for what reason.
I think this is a HUGE waste of resources. Under no circumstances should the police be allowed into your home without a warrant, Here’s the bottom line; if you like, trust and are familiar with your local PD, do as you’re most comfortable, but unless you know them and unless you’re comfortable with their intrusion, it’s better left to the lawyers. It doesn’t matter if you’re a on a ‘suspect’ list. That’s a bullshit scare tactic that means nothing. “Oooh, I don’t wanna be on your list, sure come on in”
Today is different than yesterday. No warrant, no cops. Period. In fact, I’d save a step and get one of These
Bullshit. That’s not what you said before at all. You said it was a universal truth. You said, and I quote:
I see nothing in there about “in this case”, you said “a law”, you’re just trying to wriggle out of it.
And in this actual situation, since we were talking about someone getting busted for an unspecified crime if they let a cop come in, “in this case” is absolutely meaningless. We don’t know what crime they may be busted for, so how can you say that “morals and law are equivalent” in a case when we don’t know what they might be charged with? We haven’t a clue what law the poor bugger might get arrested for, so you are just making this up to get out of an untenable position.
I’d award an 8.6 for the verbal gymnastics, though …
State Seeks Pardons for Defendants Wrongfully Convicted in 1985 Nebraska Murder
Six People Wrongfully Convicted of Murder; Four Confessed to Crime They Didn’t Commit
After reading this story, I wouldn’t believe a thing Jerry DeWitt (or those other “investigators”) said. Hell, he’s poisoning the well right there, referring to Gonzalez as a drug addict. Lying, deceitful ass.
Don’t talk to the police. Don’t let them in your home. Don’t let them in your vehicle.
Do you have a cite for that, to rebut the section of the Criminal Code of Canada cited by Spoons in post 259? Or are you just making it up?
The general rule of the plain view doctrine is that if the police are lawfully on premises and see evidence of a different crime, they are empowered to seize that evidence as well.
The police are professional liars. They will look you right in the face and lie and they won’t bat an eye and they won’t lose a moment’s sleep about it. Sometimes this is something they have to do and I understand that. There are a lot of cases where it’s probably necessary and in those cases I don’t hold it against them, it’s a hard job I’m sure, with lines that aren’t always as defined as we might like them to be. But the fact is that they are proficient liars when they feel they need to be and I’m not capable of judging when they are telling me the truth and when they aren’t. I have no reason to trust them and I don’t, so I’m going to hold on to the rights I have as tight as I can. Get a warrant or get out.
I’d be the most worried about something innocent that looks like it might be evidence. (Like the yellow shirt mentioned above).
One of my roommates is a bartender. He pays his rent in cash, in a big wad of bills. Sometimes I have that sitting around. Could look like a drug thing. We have a fire-pit outside, with a big bucket of ash we haven’t dumped yet. Maybe the police suspect the body was burned. I’ve got a freezer full of deer meat, unlabeled and home-wrapped. Scary sharp implements that have cut deer. My husband sometimes rolls cigarettes, so we have papers. I was writing a book featuring a serial killer and have a lot of murder-related books. Not to mention innocent stuff that’s particularly suspicious to this crime.
Sure, I’ll probably be vindicated, but there’ll be lawyer fees and hassles and who knows if/when I’ll get my stuff back. The cops can ruin your life amazingly easily, with no personal nefarious intention. It’s not worth the risk.
(My husband and sister-in-law both work in law enforcement, and they both say not only no, but hell no)
The ends justify the means. Take a look at some of the people in this thread for example. I’m quite sure they’d be quite happy shoveling Jews into ovens spouting the law was the law and you should follow it no matter what.
No. No warrant, no search. I’m shocked and appalled that 6,000 people would apparently willingly agree to participate in an obvious fishing expedition at the expense of their own privacy. Thanking the PTB I don’t live in Toronto.
No one gets to search my house, my car, my purse, my person without a warrant. I’ll happily step out on the porch and tell them I’ve got nothing to say, and no 18 year olds in my house.
Detroit Local News - Michigan News - Breaking News - detroitnews.com In the Detroit area cops are confiscating autos and other personal property, apparently to enhance revenue. You can have the arrest dismissed but it still costs 1 thousand dollars to get your car back. I want nothing to do with law enforcement. If they saw a wad of money they could take it. All they have to do is declare it illegal and you have to expensively fight to get it back.
Can any Torontonians shed any light on the ethnic makeup of the neighbourhood in question? Toronto is quite multicultural, with many residents who are recent arrivals from other lands. Is it possible that this neighbourhood is made up mostly of residents who come from places where the police are to be feared and obeyed, and who do not know what rights they have under the Canadian Charter? Can any Torontonian Dopers provide us with more info on this neighbourhood?
Emphasis added. This suggests that they are still in the process of knocking on doors.
When you consider the number of people who aren’t home and the number of people who decline to answer their doorbell, you have to wonder what the 100% percent compliance statistic is worth. Based on the earlier bully tactics, I wouldn’t give them the benefit of doubt.
Sppons raises a good question regarding the demographics of the neighborhood. Also, has the media played the story up in a big way?
Anyone obstructing a police investigation should be charged and arrested. It’s against the law to obstruct a police investigation. Clearly, refusing to cooperate with a warrantless search is NOT obstructing a police investigation. So your claim that it is falls flat.
I have the right not to be threatened with retaliation for asserting my rights. It boggles the mind that you don’t understand this.
Amen. If you didn’t, then there’d be no point in having the right to refuse an unreasonable search in the first place.
I’m glad somebody above brought up the immigrant factor because that had been troubling me. I’d hate to think of what a bully cop might say to an immigrant in such circumstances.
Nope. Come back when you have a warrant. I want to know WHY I’m being searched. IF I have nothing to hide, why the hell are you asking to come in?
Even if it’s only because I don’t want them making a mess of my house, scaring my dog and my cats. Asserting one’s rights is not an admission of guilt – it’s making sure I’m not being screwed.
First of all this is a teen ager, not a missing child. There’s a bit of a difference, here. It’s a lot easier to hide a child. Plus teens are more apt to be involved with drugs or want to leave home.
The article wasn’t clear as whether the search was announced THEN done, or whether it was done without warning. If they warn people they are coming, that is stupidity beyond belief. But then maybe that was the idea, to warn people then, throw a watch on the area hoping they see someone moving something like a body
I don’t even like my landlord messing in my house, much less the cops. I’d probably let them in, but I have nothing to hide so if they asked me, and I said “no,” I’d expect that I would also be believed.
You never know with cops. Last year a man was shot and killed right in front of my flat. The apartment building has about 40 flats in it. I thought the cops would at least come and knock on all the doors asking if anyone saw anything, but they didn’t. Two months later I saw on the news they were still looking for the killer, but no one ever came to my door and asked me.
It made me wonder, “Gee if I killed this guy, I could’ve had a lot of time to dispose of the gun and evidence.” To this day I don’t know if they ever caught anyone.
In another development, the police are now planning on interviewing every student at the missing girl’s school.
She attended the school for a grand total of 4 days before disappearing. And she barely spoke English, if at all. Really, what do they expect to find?
I hope the students will have some sort of legal representation with them when the police interview them individually. I don’t believe most high school kids know their rights, and this just makes my skin crawl even more than their requesting permission from adults to search homes.
Who is this girl? Why is there such an insane search for her when so many others (even other immigrant white girls) disappear so regularly with barely more than a police report drawn up about them? It just doesn’t make sense.