I know what a non-sequitur is (I had three years of college Latin). Your retarded “viewscreens” are an example. It does not follow that being willing to help the cops with one specific investigation means that I would be willing to surrender all privacy in all circumstances. It’s just as much a non-sequitur as suggesting that being willing to invite guests to your house for dinner means that you should automatically be willing to let them put a 24 hour webcam in your house.
Once you’re arrested, that changes all the circumstances. Refusing to help just because you can is sophomoric.
I suspect it is a scare tactic using weasel-y language to imply causation where there is none. Of course, if a real suspect (beyond “you happen to live nearby”) refuses a voluntary search, and they have probable cause* to get a warrant, of course they will go get one and search anyway. But the statement doesn’t necessarily mean that your refusal itself can be used as the basis of a warrant.
*I’m basing this on American law, but I imagine there are similar safeguards in Canada.
Well, he said “may,” not “will.” I don’t think he was trying to imply that refusing a voluntary search, per se would be grounds for a warrant, just that a refusal would not guarantee they couldn’t get a warrant if some other probable cause popped up.
Though some people here had bad experiences with the police, in a missing person investigation, I would do at least this minimal thing to assist them. I’ve had bad experiences with cops before. Though nothing was stolen, the experiences were humiliating and seemingly arbitrary. However, I have met good cops before, and that probably weighs in my mind when I say that I would let them search my house if I were in the situation.
People are always afraid of some asinine slippery slope, but Dio has made it clear, at least it should be, that this isn’t even a slippery slope argument. Its voluntary. No rights are being violated here.
To the OP, please convince your parents to allow the cops in if they are considering otherwise. This isn’t some hypothetical on some internet message board, this is a real person who is missing. Help the police out. Don’t listen to those people who are proposing these absurd hypotheticals about losing your rights.
There’s nothing sophomoric, immoral, or indecent about refusing the search. The search itself is not in any way helpful.
You’d let the cops in, that’s your right and others in the thread would do the same, I’m not arguing that you shouldn’t do what you feel is right.
I object to your implication that I’m some kind of asshole or morally deficient just because I don’t volunteer for an effort I view as not only pointless but detrimental to the victim and possibly the future interpretation of our rights.
Since it’s voluntary we could probably drop the discussion of our rights, it’s nearly as immaterial as the morality b.s. being bandied about.
I simply disagree that the search is not helpful, and I’m certain that REFUSING the search is not helpful.
What is Canadian law on this point? For that matter British or French law?
I disagree utterly. I think he was saying it as a scare tactic - if you don’t let them in voluntarily, we may come back with a warrant, even though we really have no grounds at all to get one.
How is it helpful? It doesn’t actually eliminate you as a suspect since, with advance notice of the police search, you could easily remove any evidence in your home, then consent to the search to “remove suspicion” from yourself. In addition, if you were the girl’s killer but the girl was never actually in your home, consent to a search tells the police nothing. Unless, by some miracle, you’re stupid enough to consent to a search while the girl or the evidence is in your home (I’m sure it’s happened, though! No matter how stupid something is, there’s always someone that dumb.), it tells the police nothing and wastes everyone’s time. The whole dragnet is pointless because negative results don’t actually indicate anything.
I have no reason to be helpful when it infringes on my rights. I want as little contact with the police as possible. What if they come in and get curious about your prescription drugs. Suppose they decide the ashes in your ashtray look suspicious. They probably will not do anything then, but might want to keep an eye on you and look for an excuse to get into your business.
If it’s really bothering you, just don’t answer the door. It won’t hurt the investigation, as your home has no connection to the crime. They’ll just carry on to the next house.
I personally wouldn’t want to let the police in at a moment’s notice because I tend to leave personal stuff out all the time that I don’t want company to see. Sure, the cops don’t care about my dirty dishes and underwear, but dammit I do, especially when I know I haven’t committed a crime. But depending on my mood, I’d probably end up sucking it up and letting them in, apologizing for the mess the whole time. I just don’t blame innocent homeowners for feeling weirded out or not wanting to comply when it’s not mandatory.
Then we’ll have to disagree. I see no way that letting the police in my house is helpful since
- it takes less time not to search than to search
- they won’t be spending any time attempting to get a warrant
- in neither case am I going to be a suspect in any meaningful manner
I figure there is a difference between the police knocking on your door at 2 am and requesting a warrantless search of your premises and publishing ahead of time a request to search. If the latter were attempted in the states I would assume it was empty threat as part of a ploy to try and get the kidnapper to move the victim ahead of the search. I can be naive sometimes though.
I agree that he probably didn’t mind if people got that idea in their heads, but that doesn’t mean he could actually follow through on that kind of implication, and he phrased it in such a way as to make his words technically defensible.
I would answer all questions honestly and be respectful but as to a search without a warrant – no way in hell.
I know there is nothing that would help their case in my home. I can refuse with a clear conscience because** I** know this. I don’t particularly care if the cops believe me.
Secondly, a search warrant specifies what is being looked for and limits the search accordingly. If they are looking for a teenaged girl then they can’t rifle through my dresser. If I just let them in then they can engage in an “anything goes” fishing expedition.
People in the linked artickle describe the police as going through their cupboards and refrigerators. No way am I letting a police officer go through my fridge without me knowing what they are looking for.
Once when I was young my parents let the police in without a warrant. The situation was different though, they were looking for an elderly man with dementia that was missing…and, this being in the olden days when no one locked their houses…the fear was that the man might be hiding inside someone’s house. There was no overtone of us being suspects.
(I had to re-check what forum this one is in, or I’d be afraid to wade in!)
The police have saved my life at least once, possibly twice. Sure, there was that one State Trooper in ND who really didn’t have to give me that ticket, but hey.
Do you really think that cops have time to search every house looking for an ounce of pot or look at your dirty underwear? You must live in some pretty slow-moving areas. I have nothing to hide, and a stranger’s opinion about my housekeeping isn’t relevant. What IS relevant is helping out if you have a chance - or next time, it may be YOU the cops are searching for, and running into brick walls of paranoid people.
So, yeah - I’d let 'em in. Any time. And I hope that most of you don’t ever need the cops someday.
Again, going from US law, not Canadian …
No. They can get a warrant and execute it. My lawyer will then be present, and if they damage anything in the search, they will have legal issues.
I know I am not the kidnapper, but again, there is nothing in my home that I want strangers pawing through without my due process. I have a touch of a phobia about people coming into my house that seriously bothers me. When someone comes to work on the furnace or something like that, I tend to have to leave until they are done.
I have needed the police before. I want cops on a case of mine to follow proper procedures, including getting warrants if people want to freely exercise their rights, and to have a better idea than “let’s search 6,000 homes in a neighborhood looking for a missing 18-year-old because we don’t have any other clue of what to do.” As if a kidnapper/murderer couldn’t be driving through unrelated neighborhoods in an attempt to not be tied to the area or something.
I doubt you’d say you didn’t want to search the neighborhood if your own kid was missing.