Political Compass #3: Pride in one's country is foolish

Great Debates
41

Now, Lee Greenwood makes a happy little jingle, doesn’t he? Full of crap, though. “Where at least I know I’m free.”

All men are free, they just have to work for it.

As far as “Love it or leave it.” I admit to using it a bit literally. I love my country. If I didn’t, I’d leave it. Find somewhere else to be that I would love. Now, I may not appreciate the current leadership, the current political climate, or any number of other things… but the country, I love. And I’m willing to work my ass off to correct the ways I see it as going wrong.

I never said you didn’t love it, either, now, did I? Did I call you a summer soldier, a sunshine patriot? Listen to the words I say, not those you want to hear.

What I really am saying, when I get down to it, is that either you care about where you live, or you don’t. If you don’t care, you either can find somewhere else to care about, or are completely apathetic about it.

I don’t think I could understand anyone who has a brain to think with being completely apathetic about where they live, not caring if it’s Botswana or France, Liberia or the US. There are differences between countries.

Therefore, if you don’t care about the US… find somewhere else to live where you do care. Build your own country. What’s the point of life if you don’t have things to be passionate about?

And if you think for one moment that a libertarian like me isn’t keeping one sharp eye on the government… well, hell, I know how bureaucracies work. I know how governments assume power. And I’m working my tail off every day to do my little part to support freedom.

But, hey, that’s just me. I think dissenting with the way the country’s run is a darn fine thing. It shows that you care about the country. Thousand times better than not caring.

42

No, but I think I was well within the bounds of reasonable inference to believe that your “love it or leave it” statement applied to me. I don’t know how old you are, but when you say this to someone who lived through the Vietnam “era,” you are employing inflammatory rhetoric.

Okay. And in the last post you’ve talked only of loving and caring for one’s country, and I’ve found nothing to disagree with apart from the aforementioned sentiment. But your earlier post, and the topic of this thread, have to do with pride, and I do have a problem with that (dependent on definition, of course. See Diogenes).

Ah, Botswana. :wink:

43

As others have pointed out above, the definition of pride is at least half the problem involved in supporting the rationale for pride in one’s country.

My understanding of “pride” has always been, roughly defined, “satisfaction with accomplishment”. This accomplishment could certainly be facilitated by certain “god-given” qualities or posessions. It makes sense for Michael Jordan to say “I’m proud of my record with the Bulls”, since he strove mightily to achieve his victories, but it would sound kind of silly for him to say “I’m proud of being really tall”, even though his height certainly contributed to his success. Few would take issue with Jordan’s being proud of his career, despite the fact that many less-gifted individuals could work twice as hard and achieve less than half as much, because they’re short or can’t jump, qualities they had no more control over than Jordan did of his stature and inherent grace.

I think it makes sense to be proud of what one has done to contribute to making America a safer, more fair, and prosperous land (even if the good fortune of being born in America makes such accomplishments far easier than they would be in other places). To be proud of merely being born into American citizenship seems absurd. I think many say “I’m proud to be an American”, when what they really mean is “I am loyal to and revere the American State.”