Political Correctness

Great Debates
1

There’s a thread in the Pit, from a guy who saw this bumpersticker about a certain Christian belief, which he finds disgusting and self-righteous. Another thread, a while back, was posted by a gay man who was sick of hearing music containing traditional Christian themes on his radio station. If you read the SDMB with any regularity at all, you will find on various posts at various times, several jabs at Christianity, or Christians, by all kinds of people who at any other time seem to be preaching tolerance and acceptance and freedom of speech and so on. Whew.

Which leads to my thread. Isn’t it true that Christian Bashing, bias, or intolerance against Fundamental Christianity, (anything you want to call it)is the Last form of Politically Correct, or acceptable Prejudice? Aren’t Fundamental Christians, all lumped together and judged on the deeds of the more infamous professing Christians like Jim Baker, or Jimmy Swaggert or Rev. Falwell.

Acceptable things you can say about Christians, said about gays or minorities or cultures, whoever, will get you a “warning” or a “label” on this board and in real life. Think about it. You can call a Christian anything you want to on this board, and no one will think twice about it. And no, I’m not into to gay bashing, extolling racism or whatever you’re thinking right now. I just want to bring out an observation. After all, aren’t Christians just people who believe in a certain way of life, just like any other group of people.

And don’t tell me that Christians bring it on themselves by being pushy and intolerant, because believe me baby, EVERYONE is preaching SOMETHING. Many are trying to force something on you that you might not neccessarily want to hear.

So what’s it gonna’ be, tolerance for everyone, or just people we agree with?

OK. I’m done. Go ahead, rip it apart.

2

This goes beyond opinion. The GD folk are best prepared to “rip it apart”. They’ll flay, dissect and test it, doin’ that voodoo they do so well.

TVeblen
Moderator, IMHO

3

And if you read the SDMB with any comprehension at all, you’ll find on various posts at various times several jabs at almost every widespread belief system, political ideology, social class, sexual orientation, or music preference.

Just as a pagan would pay closest attention to those jabs against Wicca or other earth religions, for instance, you’re particularly sensitive to threads which might be construed as derogatory toward Christianity.

Take my meaning?

4

True, and as an atheist living in the Deep South, there’s plenty of dirt spewn about us horrible non-believers. This crap about Christians being so horribly persecuted in the USA is exactly that - crap - last time I checked, most Americans claimed to be Christian - and last time I checked, Shrubya was a Christian. Yes, we’re so oppressed that we’re the majority and got our man into the office of the President (albeit with some potentially questionable tactics, but oh well, god knows all about that and we’ll pay in due time, I guess).

Give me a break.

5

I read of a recent case where somebody was prosecuted under hate crime laws because he targeted his victim because he was a Christian and had some kind of ‘Got Jesus?’ sign on his lawn. Christians are protected too, it just seems that lately Christians have decided that they are persecuted and are overly sensitive.

6

The OP may have a point, and I say this as one who is happy to bash Christianity at every and any opportunity.
I can’t say I feel that way about any other religion or any other group of people.

I think it’s because Christians set themselves up to be bashed. They are so bashable on so many levels… Christians are very vocal and visible about their religion, much more so than any other faith, and that’s a good starting place. Between jesus fish and the zillion bumper stickers, the dozens of TV evangelists, the creationists fighting school boards…

That’s why. I can think of no other LARGE group of any kind that can be so irritating in so many ways for so many reasons.

stoid
unapologetically antipathetic to Christianity and many Christians.

7

You catch on real fast Randy. I don’t think there is a Christian on this board would disagree with you. I haven’t come across any threads where a Christian basher was slapped down for slurring or attacking Christians, but be careful, very careful not to make any remarks that could possibly by any stretch of the imagination be regarded as a slur on homosexuals. Even the eminent Cecil himself is subject to a long continuous rant thread as a result of a benign gay stereotype joke.

8

Societies have many subgroups which by their social position and history hold power over the way that society operates. Those groups that hold power should expect a greater deal of criticism than those with leass power- it is the only way the hegemony can be challenged. This is why we treat politicians and lawyers so badly with impunity!

It is more noble to kick at the powerful than the powerless.

The powerful in our society are White, male, heterosexual and Christian which is why they ate freely and rightly criticised by people of colour, females, people of other sexual orientation and non-Christians.

If we lived in a society that was Black, Female, homosexual and Muslim, then anti-black, anti-female, anti-homosexual and anti-Muslim actions would be defendable over those actions currently acceptable in our society.

If this latitude is not allowed, powerful hegemonies within society cannot be challenged and IMHO society would be less for it.

9

Yeah, I take your meaning, I just disagree.

I saw a pretty malicious reply on the SDMB not too long ago by a man who used the “N word”. Several postings later , most of them condemning the guy, the moderator announced that the poster had been warned. I have yet to see any gay bashing on the board. Again, let me say, I don’t want to see it either, and also I haven’t been reading the Board as long as most of you have. I did see a Thread by a gay man, a short time ago, actually inviting insults. He posted later, something on the line of, he was dissapointed that no one took him up on it. All the replies he got were supportive. I have seen plenty of derrogative (did I spell that right?) replies about Christians though, while not neccessarily looking for them.

So now, along with being intolerant, judgemental, and self-righteous, Christians are also paranoid and have dillusions of being persecuted? I gotta’ write this stuff down, so I remember how to act.

10

I’d like to point out that the first thread is

  1. In the Pit

  2. Not really about belief so much as an obnoxious expression of an arrogant assumption, made not by “Christians”, but by that guy ahead of him in traffic.

  3. agreed with essentially by Polycarp, who is, I believe Christian, but doesn’t care for those bumperstickers either.

And finally Blackclaw who started the thread went on to say
he would like to be a believer, all the more reason he is put off by the arrogence of those who are not struggling with questions of faith. And he want to keep the self-rightous on those toes (good for him).

This is bashing?

I don’t know what the other thread is but I have a hard time seeing bitching about music you don’t like on the radio as bashing. (I mean, have you heard contemporary Christian music? It may just be good taste.)
What I’m saying is, if you have a case, certainly you can come up with better examples than that.

11

See also a previous discussion of the same topic here. Basically, something like this is a matter of perspective, and there’s nothing that can be done about it.

12

also, here

13

Randy and Grienspace, Christians run the country. christians are very firmly in charge, so you need not fear persecution. Now in China, Christians have had their churches destroyed and their pastors arrested. THAT’s persecution.

I have yet to see blatant anti-Christian bashing not get called on by the mods. I’m no fan of the Christian church, but I’m the first to defend them against unfair accusations.
There are many Christians on this board like Triskadekamus or Polycarp who are open with their belief in Jeus christ. they get respect because they GIVE respect. They post clever, well-reasoned comments and they are respectful to their opponents.

I think that Christians are not immune to being picked on if they act like jerks, any more than gay men are if they are jerks. heck, I’m 100% gay and I’ve started a thread about jerky gay guys.

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Randy *
**

Nah, it’s not all that hard to remember. Just concentrate on the difference between criticism and persecution. Give us some examples of how practitioners of the overwhelmingly dominant religion in the U.S. are persecuted and not allowed to practise their faith.

And Pjen, old pjal, I think some individuals are being shortchanged on their “hegemonic” role in society. I talked to a couple of WASPS recently who claimed they had never received their race and gender-specific “get-out-of-jail-free” cards and don’t get preferential seating at restaurants and sporting events.

15

So what’s wrong with rhetorically trashing another person’s belief system, anyway? If we’re going to value the free exchange of ideas, it seems to me that we’ll all have to deal with complaints that [insert religion here] is totally stupid because [insert complaint here]. Such complaints are a long way from persecution.

16

Reply to Jackmanni:

Speaking as a white, male, heterosexual, Christian (non-believing but able to pass if being difficult), I am very aware of the 'get out of jail cards I have been issued with.

I am never pulled by the police at random, unlike Black friends. The last time I was stopped was in 1968 in a car and 1971 on the street. Few blacks have that experience.

I progressed extremely quickly in my profession (nursing) as a man as much as as a good practitioner.

I am never questioned or put under pressure about my sexual actions- as a heterosexual they are not open for polite or impolite discussion unless requested. I can enter public restrooms without worrying about the police.

I only get a bad time about religious beliefs when I become obnoxiously agnostic (or if I’m in a really bad mood, atheistic or pantheistic) in the presence of fundamental christians or door-steppers.

I have also acquired other hegemonic ‘get out of jail’ cards: I’m fifty plus and grey haired and grey bearded, speak with a received southern English accent (probably the most valuable card available in England)and have the bearing that comes with solid middle class professional background.

I am part of the hegemony and still feel that we desrve what we get because it makes society a healthier place.

17

This gets a bit off the track of Randy’s complaint, but Pjen should be congratulated for contributing a classic exposition of political correctness. In particular, note the guilt at his perception of has led to his relative success in life and his belief that others in his “group” should suffer consequences for that guilt.
*italics added

18

Pjen seems to be conflating Fundamentalist Christianity with being white and male. Last time I checked, you could be a black woman and still be a Fundie, not that I’m arguing against thw white male hegemony theory. Certainly, being a prosperous-looking white guy gets you relatively fewer hassles than being poor, dark, or female get you.

Hey, I’m a card-carrying homo and the same goes for me. My sexual actions are also not open for polite or impolite discussion. I also resent the restrooms crack. I have never had a problem entering a restroom, mostly because because I
go there to relieve myself, just like you. Gay men are not ravening toilet pigs–you’ve been watching too much Queer As Folk or something.

19

The OP may have a point, and I say this as one who is happy to bash gays at every and any opportunity. I can’t say I feel that way about any other sexual-orientation or any other group of people.

I think it’s because gays set themselves up to be bashed. They are so bashable on so many levels… gays are very vocal and visible about their sexual-preferences, much more so than any other groups, and that’s a good starting place. Between Rainbow stickers and the zillion bumper stickers, the dozens of activists, the groups fighting school boards for homosexual sensitivity classes…

That’s why. I can think of no other LARGE group of any kind that can be so irritating in so many ways for so many reasons.

Freedom
unapologetically antipathetic to homosexuality and many gays.

20

Jackmanii: Just wanted to call you on the misattribution. I never said the quote you attribute to me…at least, not in this reality. :slight_smile: