This is really just a poll for those who avoid eating meat/animal products purely for ethical reasons. Those who need to avoid it for health or religious reaosns are excused from the poll.
My question is in the thread title. Is eating a thick, juice, factory farm steak from a cow raised under inhumane conditions a per se unethical act no matter who does it?
If the answer is no (unethical for some, not for everybody), then what determines the difference? If it’s not automatically unethical, them how can it be said that veganism/vegetarianism has any ethical basis in the first place?
I’m not a vegetarian but I’m curious what led to this poll being created. Did a vegetarian tell you that eating meat is ethical for some people and unethical for others? Because I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say anything like that.
I’m not a vegetarian, though I do tend to believe that it’s more ethical to be a vegetarian than to be a meat eater. But the plain truth is that it’s very difficult to be a vegetarian for some people and easier for others. There are a lot of things where I consider there to be tolerable actions and optimal actions so as long as someone is sticking within the tolerable range I won’t get too upset despite the optimal actions being better.
I’m a vegetarian partially for ethical reasons. I also cook meat for my husband. I’m doing what I personally can to improve the situation that US food animals go through, but I’m not going to turn into a whiny bitch and force everyone around me to cater to my preferences.
Oh, and I think there are many situations in which people can’t help but eat meat. Poor food selection, poverty conditions, etc. I’m not going to judge someone in a Third World situation on their eating habits.
I’m not a vegetarian but my take on this (which I have also heard) is “I think it’s unethical for everybody but I don’t want to get into a fight about it.” Personally I have no problem with this.
I think factory farming is cruel and unnecessary. Cruel and unnecessary behavior is, to me, unethical.
However:
Not everyone agrees that factory farming is unethical (or sufficiently so). And I’m not divine enough to dictate their sense of ethics.
I think cruel and unnecessary behavior is natural and tempting when the perceived benefits (taste, nutrition, power, whatever) outweigh the perceived risks (an annoying rant by some whiny vegetarian). I think trying to force someone to act against their natural inclinations without sufficient reason is itself an unethical act.
I’m not eager to get in a fight about it because most humans are not rational enough to debate ethics without getting angry and stubborn.
I’m not sure enough of my own position to argue it.
Basically, it comes down to: I’m vegetarian and you’re not. I think the meal you’re eating is unethical. I’m not going to fight you about it. I’m not going to tell you it’s unethical, either.
Just what is says – unethical in and of itself, regardless of any qualification or context.
I’m only asking what veggies think about the ethics of other people eaing meat. If you think it’s unethical, but don’t want to fight about it then the answer is that you do think the other person is doing something unethical. Whether you say anything to that person about it is not part of my question.
I think that choosing to eat factory-farmed meat is unethical (note: choosing) but it’s not as if I never ever do anything unethical myself.
Actually, probably the most ethical option, from my POV of being against inhumane practices rather than killing per se, is to only eat meat that has been really well-raised and slaughtered humanely after a decent lifespan, because that would encourage farmers to raise more of their animals this way. I just can’t bring myself to eat it.
According to my vegetarian daughter, although part of the reason she made her choice is that she simply doesn’t consider herself sufficiently superior by any measure to other animals to regard them as food or furniture or predatory sport (she’s happy with them as chattels, and will consume milk, cheese and unfertilized eggs, wear wool, and so on, on the grounds that the exchange is a protected and prolonged existence from what unbuffered Nature might provide), she feels that ethically she must also concede that other people have the right to make the same comparison for themselves (since it’s inherently subjective) and act accordingly. She also has a healthy enough relationship with food not to convert it into politics or religion. If you insisted on eating, say, endangered species, other peoples’ pets, or seeing-eye dogs, you’d likely have the same difficulties with her that you’d have with most carnivores, but your bologna is safe from her wrath, even if it has a first and second name.
It’s perfectly logically consistent. You just don’t accept the idea of relative morality. The actual statements are:
It’s wrong for me to eat meat.
It’s not wrong for you to eat meat.
You just add a premise:
Morality is universal: If it’s wrong for you, it is wrong for me.
This is not the case. Most people accept the idea of shades of gray in morality, and respect the idea that different people may interpret different shades of gray differently. You need something besides bivalent logic.
Let’s say that eating meat is 65% wrong. For people that avoid anything that is greater than 50% wrong, they avoid doing it. But some other people may draw the line at 75%, and thus can perform the action.
And there we have a final moral premise:
If it does not hurt someone, I should not judge someone else’s morality.
If it doesn’t hurt anyone, then it’s not immoral for you to do it either.
I’m not following your moral relativism argument. An action is either unethical or it isn’t. There aren’t any percentages, and t doesn’t matter who’s doing it. What kind of math is that? What calculation determines whether a person is on or off the ethical hook? That just sounds arbitrary and random to me.
I’m a lapsed vegetarian, but I figure it’s a more ethical choice. At the same time, I didn’t judge other people, for the same reason that many Christians say they don’t judge others: I’m certainly not perfect myself, nor was I perfect when I was vegetarian. There were a lot of things I did for pleasure or convenience that led to harm (wearing clothes made in sweatshops, driving instead of biking, going on planes for vacations, eating fruit shipped from another hemisphere, drinking non-shade-tree coffee, etc. ad nauseum). I figure that everyone does what they can, and I’m really not in a position to judge anyone else’s decision of what they can do.
This same principle applies now that I have a belly full of lamb stew.
Sometimes, maybe. But I had a vegan roommate who was very clear about how he felt. After a lot of reflection he felt that it was personally immoral to kill animals, but that it was clearly up to every individual to decide for himself.