Polyamorous couples with kids

In My Humble Opinion
101

Same way you cheat in a monogamous situation: break the ground rules of the relationship.

Some people have rules about circumstances under which people can get involved with new people – ‘only with my consent’, ‘only with prior notification’, ‘only in a less committed relationship’, ‘not without current STD testing covering these conditions’, or even ‘not at all’, as some poly families are polyfi (closed to new relationships); starting a new relationship in violation of those rules is cheating.

Some people have rules about the sorts of things one can do in other relationships – ‘no sex’, ‘no coitus’, ‘no BDSM’, ‘BDSM only’, ‘you can’t have a date at our favorite restaurant’, ‘you can’t have sex unless I’m involved’, ‘no sex in our bed’, ‘no sex when I’m in the house’, ‘no sex without using a barrier’. A friend of mine had an agreement with her husband that he was the only person who got to trim her hair.

Some people have temporary conditional states in which they’ve got additional rules – ‘no sex with your other partners while we’re trying to conceive a child’, ‘limit time with other people while we’re working on this relationship issue’, ‘no going out on dates while my mother is visiting’.
My personal rules (that I can remember; I operate rule-light and don’t spend much vigilance on these things) are:

  • barrier protection for sex outside the family (who counts as ‘family’ is negotiable)
  • current STD tests when new relationships begin
  • people are informed of significant relationship developments as they happen
  • I prefer not to be in the company of people who must be prevented from knowledge about relationships; I absolutely will not accept their hospitality if I am expected to lie to them
  • I may, at times, make agreements restricting my own behaviour or ask for same from partners; for the most part, these are temporary, but some have lasted the duration of the relationship (case of a partner saying, ‘I can’t deal with it if you do X’ and me agreeing not to do X)

I have dealt with a variety of other restrictions in the past, including things like ‘no sex in our bed’ (which is a rule I find silly, but will respect); there exist in theory rules that I would not have a problem abiding by (like ‘no sex outside the family’) which are not in play in my life.

102

Okay, here’s how I saw my comment:

You said: Poly bad because it has property X (Child might feel new guy is an interloper)
I said: Well, (divorce and then) remarriage has the same property. Therefore, if you think remarriage is okay, then this property alone isn’t enough to call something bad.

I would like to emphasise that I wasn’t critiquing any other part of your argument. For example, I agree that a child might be infinitely squicked out by Poly more than by remarriage, if not just because poly is socially unacceptable. I don’t know if that means poly people shouldn’t have kids, but who am I to judge?

103

Good luck, Jamaika a jamaikaiaké (thank Ghu for copy-n-paste!). I’ve been trying to get Contrapuntal to recognize that very argument, but he’s ignored/nitpicked all to hell that approach, even though most everyone else here seems to get it.

I suspect that Contrapuntal’s entire argument can realistically be boiled down to “I don’t like polyamory, and I will brook no argument that it should be allowed”.

104

I want to apologize; WhyNot gave a nicely thought-out, reasoned reply, and I just yelled “ASSHAT!” I was in what might be termed “a &$&!@*& mood” and should’ve kept that little editorialization out of it.

105

My two cents. As far as I can tell polyamory is long term relationships with multiple people as defined by WhyNot. She has said that it is not just about sex. It takes effort, time and energy to fall in love and develop a long lasting relationship. It also takes time energy and effort to incorporate someone into a household, even if it is platonic. This detracts from child raising.

Poly is selfish, and it is for the parents benefit, not the children’s. Does it have long term negative effects? No reliable studies. Can it be positive? I am sure in some instances it can be. But I believe introducing more people into emotionally intimate relationships complicates things unnecessarily.

106

Contrapuntal

My former wife and I have 2 kids. We love them. We also allowed ourselves to love other adults.

We broght another woman into the relationship. She lived with us. Most nights I would come home from work, spend time with Second Wife, then go upstairs to sleep in same bed with First Wife. Occasionally, we would all pile into the Gigantic Bed, and much fun would ensue.

Second wife moved in to take care of kids, so that I could sleep during the day (working evenings) and First wife could go to school.

Children had a loving, caring adult around at all times. Second wife loves children immensely.

Anything physically intimate that happened happened after the kids had gone to bed, and therefore did not impact them. On occasion, we went out as a family, wherein children received the benefits of 3 sets of eyes to watch over them.

For the 9 months or so that it happened, it was a great and wonderful thing. Everyone happy, children loved and cared for, and house clean, safe, and full of love.

First wife and I are no longer together, due to completely unrelated things.

But we still all love and care for the children as best we can, and myself and Second wife are now monogamous.

Given the example there, which I have lived through, I would like your explanation for how the situation there was bad for the children. I would also like a chance to rebutt, in the event that something is conveyed incorrectly.

What I am hoping to show here is that a mature, stable and Poly relationship can be a benefit to children.

107

::Stupid Hamsters::

…Especially when people try to extricate themselves from the relationship eventually.

108

My wife likes to roller skate and has joined the local Roller Derby league, that takes time, energy and effort. I suppose I should tell her to stop being so selfish and spend that time with her kids. Or… I could possibly acknowledge that there are things apart from the kids worth doing for her own well being… and that her well being contributes directly to the kind of positive effort, time and energy she is able to put into out children. In otherwords she gets to spend time, energy and effort as a happy and well rounded human being instead of some kind of maternal slave. I know which I’d rather have for my daughter both as a mother and example of womanhood.

Also, I think I should cull the number of extra relatives I have, maybe move a few thousand miles away or something… they obviously complicate things unnecessarily. Nobody NEEDS that many aunts, uncles and cousins. sigh

109

Shouldn’t she be spending all her time, energy, and effort keeping venom off your head.

Aren’t your children stretched into rope and tied around you?

And when did the bowels of the earth get internet access? I’d have thought Ratatosk would have told me all this. He’s usually such a gossip. Ooh, maybe Colibri or better still Brachyryncos can locate Hugin and Munin and I can just ask the big ringgiver about the changes in the status quo.

BTW- Does your posting mean that, screw the groundhog, I should anticipate fire, flood, and the mother of all winters?

110

I hope your mother in law never has to move in with you.

I find it odd that after people with experience in this area have already told you that it IS beneficial to the children that you would still make a statement to the contrary.

It can just as easily simplify things. The fact that it isn’t for you doesn’t make it a bad thing. Poly relationships can be as successful or disastrous as traditional ones.

111

Kalhoun- just because 2 people anecdotally say it’s wonderful for children doesn’t make it necessarily so. I posited that there are no reliable studies either way, at least that I’ve found. I do agree with you that poly relationships can be negative or positive, isn’t that what I wrote in my post? Why yes, as a matter of fact, it is…

Additionally Kalhoun, it would be an adjustment to add anyone to a household. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t contribute, wouldn’t enhance the household, but there would definitely be an adjustment. My point is that the ONLY reason to add a lover is the parents immediate benefit. Kids are secondary in the equation. Be nice if people’d just admit that one point.

It is selfish on the parents part. And it’s not just everyone hanging out and singing Kumbaya, either. I know the rates of abuse and murder of children go up dramatically when non related individuals live in the household. I’ll give you a summarizing link, and yes, I can read that most murders are committed by the biological mother. But having non related “paramours” (Their word,) is definitely a factor.

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet/pdf/childfat_FS6.pdf
Yes, parents need to be selfish, I have five kids, I get that. I do plenty outside and away from the kids, and it does impact the family. But the repercussions are not potentially so detrimental. I’m just not sure the best way to get down time from the kids is by introducing new sex partners to the family and into the household.

Lokij, if your argument is that long term additional sex partners is similiar to learning how to rollerskate, on the impact it has on families and the way for self expression and contentment, I mean, how the hell am I supposed to reply to such inanity? Without mocking you? If it means so little, why are you exposing yourself, your spouse, and your children?

112

I’ve read both the threads and while I have little to nothing to say about polyamorous relationships I firmly believe the kids will be just fine provided the parents emphasize they are loved no matter what, and just because the relationship with the others may be changing the relationship with the child will not be changing.

I found out something nasty about my family, too, at age 14. Something they’d been hiding all their lives. To this day, I clearly remember that what affected me most long-term was not finding out - traumatic, yes, but traumatic things happen - but the way my parents reacted to it. They completely changed their personalities and acted as though it were a guilty secret to be hidden. Well, that “guilty secret” happened to be my origins, so acting like that was what gave me the long-term damage.

I am all for openness with kids as soon as they can handle it. I think WhyNot and Lilarien and the others are doing OK. And I wish them luck as they bring these kids up because raising kids is never easy. Thanks for sharing your stories, guys.

113

It doesn’t mean anything one way or the other, so why bring it up, especially in the negative tone you’re presenting it in?

Your issue about live-in paramours is neither here nor there. Life is full of risks. You aren’t suggesting that a single parent stop dating for fear a new person is going to be a danger to their children, are you?

The underlying theme amongst most of the anti-poly crowd revolves around the sex thing. Numerous people have come in here and said it is either better for their kids, better for the children of friends, was a non-issue in their own life, or that they felt they were better off than children of traditional families. Not one person has presented polyamoury as negative. Provide some cites if you have different information.

114

Except I never said that, despite what numerous posters in this thread would have you believe. I said IF it is bad for the children, the parents are irresponsible in engaging in such behavior.

Also, as I noted, being held hostage by a serial killer/rapist has the same property. Comparisons made at such a superficial level, with no background information, are rarely useful.

As an intellectual exercise, why don’t you take the actual arguments I have made and boil away. Really. Take any of my arguments and reduce it to what you stated. Shouldn’t be too hard to do. Unless I never made that argument.

Nothing in your example suggests that anything was bad for the children, so no rebuttal needed. For the eleventyfivebillionth time, I have never stated that polyamorsitolgy is necessarily bad; in fact, the opposite is true. Posters in this thread have taken shots at me, called me stupid, questioned the sincerity of my position, accused me of being close-minded, and more. Shall I tell you the two affirmative statements I have made concerning the OP? Here goes. I said that I would never allow someone else to discipline a child of mine as described (second adult moves into two-adult household and assumes the status of parent,) and that if my parents had done that to me I would have left home. That’s it. I have spent the rest of my time here defending myself agains false allegations and trying to wade through the muddy logic that I have encountered.

115

Funny, I thought that I just did exactly that.

Everyone else seems to think that you are, in fact, saying that the poly lifestyle is bad… so obviously the fault lies with everyone else. Gotcha.

116

Just playing devils advocate.

I had a bad “not really open, but not monogamous” marriage. It did not involve children. What it involved was a boyfriend then fiancee than husband who continually cheated, who I continually accepted him cheating and it eventually blew up. It isn’t really the same thing as I was never willingly in a poly relationship - on the other hand, I think a lot of people - particularly young women - end up in poly relationships that are not gone into wholeheartedly. They think opening the relationship is a way to “keep” a guy (or girl). In that case, a poly relationship is really a form of emotional abuse that the women (or man) who is not into it is choosing to participate in. A lot of aquaintences assumed our relationship was open when I was choosing to ignore girlfirends. But I felt I’d made a committment to the relationship and I felt that eventually he’d “grow out of it.” If kids are involved in a poly relationship where all parties aren’t into the poly relationship - it can be quite tragic. I have an acquaitence (female) who lived in a threesome with two people who were legally married and had a bio child together (concieved during the course of thier poly marriage). Eventually my acquaintence left the threesome (she wasn’t that into the guy, but it had been a term of the relationship with the girl) and now has lost a child she thought of as her son. Since she appeared to the outside to be the stable one of the threesome, the outside world thinks that the kid may be the real loser.

However, I learned a few things from my situation, because I flirted at the outside of that community and because I lived for five years in a not always monogomous situation.

Poly relationships can work, if the rules are established and if it isn’t “cheating.” And if everyone is a willing participant and everyone respects one another. I will say that some poly relationships I’ve witnessed have had an incredible trainwreck quality to them - but some monogomous marriages have as well.

Some people don’t do well in monogomous relationships. My ex-husband remarried the girlfriend he had when we broke up. My understanding is that they are still together (its been fifteen years) and that their relationship is poly with kids. Both were married when they started seeing each other, both get some sort of rush from early relationships that isn’t fed by a lifelong monogomy. While it isn’t how I choose to live my life, I think this is the most successful lifestyle for him. I’ve noticed a tendency to poly or open marriages when one or both partners is bisexual - and often that is the term of the openness - you can sleep with the same gender, but you can’t have sex with someone of my gender.

117

I don’t think that was “devil’s advocate” at all. Your relationship wasn’t actually a poly relationship… because you did not willingly agree to the arrangement. And you know that, so you weren’t making a direct comparison. You also noted that you know people who HAVE willingly gone into it, and some have made it and some have been horrid … just like regular monogamous marriages.

Great post, actually.

118

No, you said that, you did not do that. To do it would require an anlaysis of the argument, not a knee-jerk reaction. Really, just find one argument I have made and show why it is what you say it is. The thread is not so large that you would be too terribly burdened. Just find one, or be quiet about it.

Are you speaking for everyone now? Did I say everyone had insulted me? Are you even capable of understanding concepts that are nuanced, that exist somewhere between everywhere and nowhere? Is it not possible to disagree with you in the slightest without being completely wrong about everything?

Find one instance of me saying that a poly lifestyle is bad, or stop pestering me.

119

How many people now have you accused of seeing everything in black and white? It’s like a weird posting-related Tourette’s.

120

You came off as being against poly relationships. Why would we get that impression if that isn’t what you wanted people to hear? Are you saying you have no opinion one way or another? The whole IF argument could have been left out of the discussion altogether if you weren’t trying to say you thought that poly relationships were bad for children in general. IFs are a part of everyday life. Why bring up the obvious unless you thought the chances of “bad” befalling the children were higher than, say, the IFs that come up every time you put your kids in a car?