Polycarp told me to start this this thread....

…About a month or so ago. I was talking with Poly on the phone, and I related something that had happened to me. A few months back, while in Canada, GingerOfTheNorth and I went into a Christian bookstore to pick up a “Veggie Tales” videotape for our son Matthew. For those of you who don’t know, “Veggie Tales” are Christian prophaganda marketed at children. Singing and dancing animated vegtables, etc… Example: Asparagus singing " God is bigger than the boogie man, he’s bigger than Godzilla or the monsters on TV". In other words, it’s garbage, but then so are Neo-Pets and Pokemon, and Matthew enjoys all of them.

The point of the story is this: While in the Christian bookstore, I noticed a book titled (best as I can remember): “Finding Christ through Lord of the Rings”. I also saw any number of books viehemently condeming Harry Potter. Hmmm. Ginger was in line to buy the tape, I think I’ll fuck with these folks ( in a most respectful way ). I took the LOTR book and one of the Anti-Potter ones up to an employee whom I’d overheard holding forth at great length on the evils of network TV to other customers.

“Excuse me”


“I was wondering…I have a question”

“OK, shoot”

“I saw this book” (I held up the LOTR one)" and this one" (I held up an Anti-Potter book)" and I was wondering…what exactly is the difference?"

Nubleas have not been as wide as this guy’s eyes.

" The difference? The difference???" ( He really said it twice )

" Yes, what’s the difference?"

“The difference”’ he hissed, actually hissed, " Is that Harry Potter teaches REAL Magic. Those spells are REAL!"
“Wow” said I.

“That’s incredable”

"I have always wanted to fly on a broom, you mean Harry Potter can teach me that???
“No, but other spells are REAL!!!”

At this point, Ginger had paid and we had to go. I thanked the gentleman for his time. Still…
I would have liked to fuck with that guy some more. Poly suggested I post the story because he would enjoy the responses. So would I. Idiots.


I’m sorry…but are you serious? bWAHAHAHAHA…

Oh man, I don’t have anything to add, but that’s hysterical!

I have nothing to say, other than, “Awwwwwww…”

Bolding mine.

Damn. Damn.

“Our son, Matthew” was the only t hing that was supposed to be bolded.

Give me a break, I’m ovulatin’.

Are they all bible stories ? I thought it was just one or 2 tapes … but I thought they were funny and inoffensive compared to most dull kids bible kids shows/cartoons

But contrary to popular belief i think you can learn things from the bible and not be christan and follow every word

Some children’s Bible stories are cool-the Narnia Chronicles. And they can always watch Little House on the Praire.

When the old Bob Larson show (an insane “Christian” radio talk-show) was on, he had the occasional rant about fantasy books (this was LONG before Harry Potter, but it still applies.) I actually called in to screw with him in a similar way you did. (And I’m very dissappointed that the broomstick spells don’t work, dammit).

Anyway, Larson was raving about…um…one of the Weiss and Hickman books/series, as it had hit the NY Times Bestseller list. (Dragonlance, perhaps?)

Larson: The problem with these “Sci-fi” books is that they have magic and magic turns you away from God!

Me: Um…what about Tolkein and Lewis?

Larson: Who?!

Me: J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis: Tolkein wrote The Lord of the Rings and Lewis wrote the Narnia Chronicles. Both theologians, very famous.

Larson: That…that’s different. In Tolkien, he’s got a world where there’s a clear-cut distinction between good and evil.

Me: Same as (whichever book). Frankly, since Weiss and Hickman aren’t very good writers, their cardboard villians and heroes have an even greater distinction, since they wouldn’t know subtlety if it bit 'em in the…butt

Larson: They have other “gods” than God!

Me: So does Lewis. Remember when Bacchus shows up?

Larson: Their spells work!

Me: wha?

Larson: I’m a Christian! I’m an expert on the occult. I’ve written in my book “Larson’s Big Book o’ Cults” (or whatever it was called) that Dungeons and Dragons were based on occult ‘grim-o-rees’! Isn’t Weiss and Hickman’s stuff based on D&D

Me: Yeah, but that doesn’t…

Larson: A-HA! <hangs up> Well? Can’t argue with THAT, can you? CAN YOU? <waits about 30 seconds> See listeners? Confronted with the truth, Dungeons and Dragons players have NO DEF…oh! He just now hung up…NO DEFENSE!

Me; <resolves to never call again>


:frowning: I know many, many otherwise sensible, well-read, and intelligent Fundies who really believe that “the stuff in Harry Potter is real”. :frowning:

I had a conversation with one of them, a member of my church (we teach Sunday School across the hall from each other) who is also a teacher in the public schools. She wanted to know what I thought, since the movie was out and all.

So I explained to her,“No, Harry Potter isn’t real, and yes, I’ve personally read all of them, and yes, I think they’re harmless, and yes, I allowed all three of my kids to read them, and yes, they love them, and no, they haven’t started ‘fooling around’ with magic, and no, none of them has changed himself accidentally into a large can of green beans through the use of a spell learned from the Harry Potter books.”

She said, “Oh.”

Just that. “Oh.”

But it was an “oh” that said, “I think you’re probably wrong, but we’ve known each other a long time, so I’m not going to say anything, but I will pray for you.”

And P.S. All the Veggie Tales videos are FAAAAAABULOUS!! Real characters that you care about (everybody I know is TOTALLY in love with Larry), the animation’s great, there’s tons of hilarious subtext and puns in there for the grownups, and best of all, it’s Bible Stories, straight-up with a twist. What’s not to like?

I love Veggie Tales myself. We’ve missed the last 2 of them though.
When i was young, however, I read books about magic (one by a self proclaimed witch who said she made it snow in July when a young girl)
And it did get me interested in the occult.
Not a good thing.
Different from fiction stories however.

You have not been paying attention:

C. S. Lewis as agent of Satan.

Err…why is this not a good thing? I’ve often wondered why it is that many christians are so adamant that nothing of the occult ever be seen, and it’s left me with a couple of questions:

  1. It seems that the basis for this sheilding is that, given the slightest taste of anything occult, people will immediately shed the faith in favor of something darker. C’mon, is the faith really that weak?

  2. Isn’t it better to know your enemy? So many of the fundies I come into contact with, however, spend most of their time preaching to the choir (as it were), that it really doesn’t matter whether or not they actually know what they’re talking about. But in real world circumstances, such as confronting a Wiccan (for example), isn’t it advantageous to know the tenets of Wicca in order to have a serious discussion?

Hee hee. I saw the “C.S. Lewis is a Satanic Dog” website a while ago. Yup, he was evil. One of his characters says… wait for it… “Dem.” How awful. And he encouraged childhood alcoholism by talking about wine. My word, if you’re going to complain about something, for heaven’s sake READ THE BOOK! Real spells… phooey.
I personally hate the Harry Potter books (and yes, I’ve read all of them) but because I don’t think the’yre well-written, and Harry seems pretty boring to me as a character. And because I’m a rabid Tolkien/Lewis fan, and the comparisons bug me. Someday I’ll write out my whole anti-Potter rant, and post it.
I like veggi tales too.:smiley:

What?! You HAVE GOT to be kidding! People really think that stuff is real?

I don’t know what to say. It’s astounding and appalling. I am literally sitting here with my mouth open. You can bet your sweet bippy that when I have kids they’ll be encouraged to read whatever they can get their hands on, including Harry Potter (which I happened to LOVE!).

Sheesh. It IS taking longer than we thought!

Actually, I disagree with vanilla’s views, but, she has never really offered them in a hateful, disrespectful manner.

So let’s not go there, okay?
I find it more disturbing that she thinks Ralph Nader is sexy!



You folks seem surprised that a good many people are wilfully ignorant and determined to stay that way.:rolleyes:

Actually, if the OP would REALLY like to freak out the owners of that Christian book store, here’s an idea:

Let the owners know that J.R.R. Tolkien was (shhhh!)… CATHOLIC!

In case you’re not aware, the sort of Christians who take Harry Potter seriously are precisely the sort who think the Pope is the anti-Christ, that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, and that Catholics don’t qualify as real “Christians.”

The Christian symbolism in LOTR is real and unmistakeable (though Tolkien didn’t like the story to be taken as a simple Christian allegory in toto, and disliked what he considered overly blatant, simplistic Christian symbolism in C.S. Lewis’ Narnia series), so it’s understandable that some Christian book stores would carry treatises on that subject. But I guarantee, many such stores would drop those books like a hot potato if they knew that Tolkien’s symbolism was of a Roman Catholic nature.

Of course, on a more serious note (out of place in the Pit, I know!), while all kinds of episodes in LOTR seem to be chock full of Christian symbolism, one wonders… just who’s supposed to represent Christ?

Frodo carrying the ring up Mount Doom certainly conjures up images of Christ carrying the cross up Calvary (making Sam Gamgee Simon of Cyrene?). But…

Gandalf is the one who dies fighting evil (the Balrog) and comes back to life, more powerful. Sounds like a Christ symbol to me. And yet…

Isn’t Strider’s return to kingship supposed to make us think of Christ’s triumphant return, to set things right at the second coming?

They can’t ALL be Jesus… or can they? Or might Professor Tolkien tell me I’m reading far too much into storybook characters?

A book discussing the Christian symbolism in LOTR might well be interesting. The specific book Weirddave saw might even be worth reading. But it might also be filled with the kind of contradictions and quandaries I’ve already noted. And in my experience, the people who run (and frequent) Christian book stores aren’t keen on ambiguity.

Interesting, Wierddave. I think it actually makes a bit of twisted sense, from two angles.

Pragmatically, fundamentalists have a real interest in two things: keeping those who are in from getting out, and drawing those who are out in. The Lord of the Rings primarily appeals to teenagers (and adults, but they’re probably not important). These people (teenagers) are supple enough to be drawn in, if the right “hook” is found. Voila Tolkein.

Harry Potter appeals to preteens (and adults, but they’re probably not important). These people (preteens) can be presumed to be under their fundamentalist parents spell. But it’s a tenuous bond, and the smallest amount of questioning can break it. Thus, the importance of keeping Harry Potter out of kids’ hands.

I think I can even make a literary case for a fundamentalist approval of LOTR and rejection of HP. Tolkein was (or, at least, can be read as) a Romantic (neo-romantic? Victorian?) who rejected modernism. A really good case can be made that fundamentalism itself is a failure to cope with modernism. I haven’t read all the HP books (cough boring cough), but it appears that they do not reject modernism, they embrace it and mix in a dose of fantasy. Thus, Tolkein is rejection of modernism is fundamentalism is rejection of modernism is not Harry Potter.

kg m²/s²

Actually, I saw a site that was a very strict, conservative, Pre-Vatican II type Catholic site-that actually said that Harry Potter was evil. So, obviously some Catholics on the fringes-think Pat Buchanan-believe so.

The majority, however, don’t, as far as I know. For example, our pastor read the books and gave a homily on them.

I posted it in another thread but this is a funny empirical debunk of the idea that anything in Harry Potter or D&D is real occult stuff.