Pope decides entire Enlightenment was a bad idea.

(Based on an NPR review I heard today of his new book, Memory and Identity.)

Well it was certainly the thin end of the wedge when people started to think things out for themselves, based on observation and logic.

And the result? Now, under the subtle guise of advancing democracy, we spread the evils of permissiveness, contraception, divorce, and abortion.

Sounds like he’d rather bring back…


(Cue loud jarring chord)

Boy, I wasn’t expecting that!

The Pope is a fucking moron. They ought to lock his ass in the basement and throw away the key.

I don’t think you would even need a lock. Just filp the on/off switch under his hat. Y’all do know he is an animatronic robot right?

Round of golf claps for World Eater, for introducing Pitworthy language. I had a hunch it might end up in GD, so I kept the OP clean, but on second thought I think this is just the place for it after all.

Of course not. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquistion!!!

I heard a bit of this on NPR this morning, early. So, abortion is just like the Holocaust? And encouraging humans to think that they can impact on their world w/o a deity (IIRC) is akin to succumbing to evil?

Ya know, I used to have respect for the Pope–but this is too much. Clean your house of sin, then come after us, is my take on things.

I am grouchy today.

I liked how he said that gay marriage is part of an “ideology of evil,” but omitted mention of the Catholic Church serving as a protector and enabler of child molesters in its employ. He also seems not care that the Catholic Church’s stance against condoms has helped the AIDS epidemic blossom in the Third World.

The Pope is just a senile old man in a funny hat, and only credulous fools listen to anything he has to say.

Comparing abortion to the Holocaust is nothing new-some of the more rabid RtLers have been doing it for years. I can see how they MIGHT arrive at that conclusion-if they really believe abortion is wrong, but it still doesn’t work. The Holocaust wasn’t only about killing people, it was about torture, reducing people to fucking animals, all on the basis of their race, or religion, or various other traits (homosexuals, the handicapped, etc).

Now, I will say that John Paul II has done quite a bit of good in his time-I’d say he, more than anyone, is responsible for the fall of communism in Eastern Europe. And he’s quite intelligent. But I don’t see him as the saint many others do-give me John XXIII anyday!

Yeah, I haven’t made up my mind as to whether a fetus is a human being or not, but if you do see it as a human being I can see how abortion is murder. I can even see the point of those who would go to great lengths to stop it (not that they shouldn’t be punished for it.)

However, even if it is mass murder, there have been lots of mass murders in history that were not:

– Organized, and
– Targeted at specific people due to prejudice

which abortion, even if murder, is not. Pure hyperbole.

With every statement like this, an African pope becomes more likely. Which is ironic, trading a history of spotty race relations* for one of homophobia and intellectual reaction. But not ironic enough to make a big deal of, it happens all the time (cf.: Nat Turner.)

And some Protestant breakoff churches in America are already flocking to Africa for a more conservative denominational affiliation.

*although the Popes were one of the few power figures that did not always condone wholesale enslavement of Native Americans, their friendship with fascism does much to make up for this.

I’ve always wondered why thousands, if not millions, of people around the world listen to anything said about sex, marriage, and procreation from a bunch of guys who have voluntarily removed themselves from the gene pool.

To be fair, a lot of Catholics don’t always take everything the Pope says to heart. My own family, for example, while very devout, were never one for the nitty-gritty details and rules.

Educate me. What did he do that was so important? I’ve always laid the lion’s share of the credit rather squarely at the feet of Gorbachev.

Gorbachev?!? No way! *Reagan *told him to tear down the wall. It was Dutch all the way!!

Yea, but it was Gorbachev who paid the price. I guess you could say it was a Dutch treat.

Well, Gorbachev had more to do with the USSR specifically. I’m talking about the Pope using diplomacy and rallying for peace.

Perhaps I should withdraw my statement. Basically, what I meant was, he was more responsible than Reagan.

Sorry, that was stupid of me. Never mind. :smack:

Well, to give him his due, the Catholic Church was still remarkably strong in Poland under the Communist regime, and John Paul II did exploit that strength by celebrating Mass outdoors before stupendous crowds. For whatever reason the government could not or would not put a stop to it, and it catalyzed the Walesa revolution of a few years later, IMO.

Of course in those days I thought he meant that democracy and freedom were good things.

They are when people don’t abuse them by straying from the One True path. Then they’re evil.

If you ask me, JPII’s philosophy has gotten progressively strident with old age, and I find this latest offering to be reflective of his unfortunate decline into a kind of afflicted sanctimony that was uncharacteristic of his younder, healthier self. My guess is his increasingly glowering persona is indicative of the mental deterioration that coincides with the physical signs of Parkinson’s, namely depression, anxiety, dementia, even psychosis (often exacerbated by the dopaminergic drugs used to combat Parkinsonian spasm). He claims he finds something redemptive in his suffering, but I don’t see much of use to the modern faithful in such retrograde doctrinairism. How such messages are received may have great relevence to the choice of the next Pope.

That and communism isn’t very sustainable because each subsequent generation desires more then basic subsistance the system provides. Johnny P electric boogaloo just happened to exist while the straw was breaking the camel’s back.