Your hand must be sore from constantly tipping your fedora.
I agree with the OP. Pope Francis seems like a fantastic human being and I’m even suspicious that he may be ego-less or ‘enlightened’ as they say.
I like Francis. I do, however, worry people will begin to get weary at seeing every gesture or remark be held up as somehow portentous. Now, for sure Francis IS much less imperial and more accessible than all his predecessors in living memory, and his more pastoral manner seems to be the real deal. Good for him to try and bring the office back to the earthbound flock but let’s not get too worked up: Give him time and sooner or later he will proclaim/do/ignore something that gores *our ox. They all do if they last long enough in the chair. He’s “infallible” on Catholic Theology(), not as a person.
(*and only in some specific cases)
But hey, I’ve had people who after seeing Benedict up close came back gushing and choking up about what a grand experience of holiness, and we know Benedict’s public image was whatever is the opposite of charming and folksy.
It does seem to me that this US visit has the Pope more straitjacketed as to his movements than would fit the style he has shown over the past two years, during which he had something of a rep for going off script and walking out to the barricade to press the flesh with the folks in the SRO section. He seems to have been given more limited space for that here; maybe it’s just that we’re paranoid that if someone’s gonna get a bead on the Pope it’s not gonna be here.
You’re absolutely right. The Catholic Church does nothing to feed the poor.
You do realize that he made news the same day because he turned down an invitation to dine with the DC elite so he could go serve a group of homeless people lunch, right?
And that he’s ordered them to put in showers for homeless people near the Vatican?
And that’s he’s reportedly been caught sneaking off Vatican grounds to go hang out with the poor and give them money and spiritual comfort?
I’m not the man’s *biggest *fan. I wish he’d change a whole lot about the role of women in the church, their stance on birth control, and LGBTQ+ issues. I hear he’s said something unfortunate about GMOs and pesticides lately (but only in rumor form. I haven’t seen the encyclical; I’m not sure if it’s been released yet.)
But he’s done a lot to loudly and clearly articulate Catholic doctrine about some pretty good stuff that wasn’t getting enough attention under recent popes. No, none of it is groundbreaking, or new, but it’s been getting ignored until now. So yes, there is something to like about him, even for this not-a-Catholic. And to suggest he doesn’t walk the walk when it comes to serving the needy with his own heart and hands shows you’ve not actually been paying attention, and therefore your opinion is uninformed.
Speaking of birth control, does the Catholic church lack the ability to do math?
Let’s see, birth control and masturbation is disallowed for Catholics. People marry. Hmm, wonder what’s gonna happen. So the Catholic couple has 8 kids. And then each of their 8 kids remain Catholic and also have 8 kids.
Well, its’ good for the church, but with this kind of exponential growth, what’s going to eventually happen? Eventually, there will be more people than living space and food for them exists. Wonder what’s going to happen then…
I guess the priests can mutter about “god’s plan”, but, if this is true, why don’t they put on blindfolds and go stumbling around in traffic? Oh, right, they don’t believe god will redirect the cars and trucks and busses from running them over. A clearly foreseeable consequence. So how is birth control and population bombs any different?
“I’ve dedicated my entire life to this religion, and now that I am its head I am here to say that this religion is bullshit, we are all greedy bastards, and I am willing to look the other way @ our priests fondling little boys.”
…
I think Francis is doing his best to very gradually modernize the Church. You expect far too much of him.
Actually when it comes to LGBT issues I am insanely impressed by him. I could never have imagined someone in that position being so progressive. He supports same sex unions (and have been for a long time) and he’s said and done a lot of good stuff on the issue that I would just never have expected from a Pope. Having a pope NOT hating gays would have been enough for me to be ok with it, having one that actively promotes the LGBT agenda is just… a miracle…? :eek:
You really have to bend over backwards to find reasons not to like this guy. I mean, unless… well… unless you’re a religious fundamentalist I guess. Which is kind of ironic.
No, sadly, he doesn’t. He made an off the cuff comment to a reporter about not judging gay people: “If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?” and Progressives ran with it. His scripted comments are still very much anti-gay marriage, and he believes that gay marriage threatens traditional families.
He’s made some half hearted attempts at “thinking about” some sort of not-marriage union between gay people, but that’s hardly progressive thinking these days.
He is absolutely not a friend to transgendered persons, noting that they’ve invented a whole new sin by thwarting God’s gender binary.
When has he actively promoted the LGBT agenda?
I didn’t say he supported gay marriage, I said he supported same sex unions. It would be absolutely crazy for him to support gay marriage, it goes completely against the faith. We’re talking about the leader of a conservative religion here, a religion that has been killing gays for centuries. He’s not participating in pride parades dressed as a dildo handing out blow job vouchers, but he’s doing way, way more than you could reasonably expect.
Seriously, anyone in the LGBT movement who thinks this is pope is not doing a good job needs to calibrate their sensors to reality. This guy is our friend and he is trying to be nice to us. We should be nice back.
But *what *has he done? Except to say that we should be nice even the gay people, which yes, it’s nice. But it’s in fact exactly what I would expect. It’s, again, not new to Roman Catholicism, and doesn’t mean that there’s any meaningful or “actively promot[ing] the LGBT agenda”.
That was written in 1986.It’s in the middle of a bunch of other words about how homosexuality is a moral sin of disordered people, and priests better remember that.Pope Francis hasn’t said anything to the contrary.
What do you mean what has he done? He’s telling people to stop hating the gays and he supports civil unions for same sex couples.
You bring up a document from 1986, what has that got to do with Francis?
We have a legit beef with the RCC, but not its current leader. That needs to be understood because it’s horribly, horribly stupid beyond belief to attack your allies. Yes the RCC like almost all religions ever have a horrible history of murdering and torturing LGBT people, which is why we should be supportive of its current leader who is apparently doing what he can to change the current situation towards what we like.
Attacking this pope on LGBT issues is incompetent if you’re actually working for the LGBT agenda. The correct position is “We very much welcome these progressive remarks from the current pope, and hope that he will continue to work for greater acceptance of different sexual identities and lifestyles within the Christian faith”. Not “Well he’s still against SSM so obviously he’s a total bitch and I hate him”.
I mean, what has he done.
How? Where? When?
It is relevant because it also says we should stop hating the gays, demonstrating that Pope Francis’s comments are not unique or even novel within the RC church. It does not support civil unions, but I haven’t seen a credible report that Pope Francis actually, currently supports civil unions, either, or has actually done anything to promote them. He did try, years ago, in Brazil, I will give him that. The Bishops said no, and he seems to have dropped it.
Is that a mouse in your pocket? Who is “we”? There are lots of LGBT groups who aren’t fooled, who he isn’t listening to and are still calling for him to actually do something for LGBT issues.
But what is he doing?
No, the correct position is, “he seems a good man with some work to do, and some unfortunate blind spots due to RC doctrine, which understandably come with the job.”
That’s the same position. And it seems to contradict your earlier rhetorical questions, claiming he’s done nothing.
What he’s done is public. It’s even in those links you gave–minus your editorializing where you deliberately minimize it.
He has declared that he cannot judge whether homosexuality is wrong–that it’s up to God. He has told the Church to stop making homosexuality a priority. This is in direct contrast to the last two popes who went around talking about how homosexuality was wrong.
I also loathe this desire to demonize the people who are helping. Do you want us to go back to popes who do what was written in that 1986 paper and condemn homosexuals to hell?
I saw this same shit in ShitRedditSays. They’d been whing for every about /r/CoonTown. Then it gets banned, and there’s a huge thread where all they do is talk about how horrible the CEO is, how it didn’t really mean anything.
You want a Pope who is more tolerant, you get the first steps, and you deliberately minimize what he’s done.
That’s not treating him like a “good person.” That’s treating him like someone you already have made up your mind to hate.
I don’t hate him at all. I take a middle ground. He’s not the Antichrist, but neither is he the Progressive Messiah that the media is making him out to be.
I really have to agree with BigT, he put it much better than I could have.
He’s the Pope of the Catholic Church. This is as progressive as it gets.
If he goes too far, it will just be undone by the next Pope. Better a little bit now that is acceptable and remains acceptable when the next one comes in. Baby steps. It’s the only way the Church will change.
Remember, this is the Church that only allowed the Mass in the local language 50 years ago. And that was a huge upheaval.
Sorry, missed this. No, what I want is a Pope who stands up and says, “Oops, we got that wrong. Gay people are not “disordered”. They’re not sinning, they’re not immoral, they’re perfectly wonderful expressions of God’s love. Homosexuality is natural, and part of God’s creation. Gay people should have every right and responsibility that heterosexual people have, including full marriage, in the church and legally. And so we’re going to start encouraging our priests to advocate for equal rights for gay people. We’re going to start celebrating gay marriages and signing gay marriage licenses. We’re no longer going to say we don’t allow gay priests; we will welcome gay people into the priesthood with open arms, in appreciation for the vast expression of God’s love for all humans.”
I want the Roman Catholic church to encourage every parish to open a center for LGBTQ+ people, where they can go to get safer sex education and marital counseling when they’re ready, and openly talk about their experiences as gay Catholics.
That would be progressive. *That *would be more than I realistically expect. But it’s what I want.
Exactly. And, for what he is, he’s doing a good job. But he doesn’t, per the OP, totally fucking rock. He merely fucking rocks. And I think people need to keep that in mind. The Pope is still Catholic. If people forget that, then they forget how hard we need to keep fighting for actual action. For more baby steps.
This seems to me like a distinction without a difference.
ETA: I mean, we’re talking about the Pope.
I’m sorry, but the OP is completely delusional. Take a few minutes and actually do some research on the Jesuit Order and the Pope’s past activities in Argentina and you might begin to scratch the surface of just how completely you have been brainwashed by the mainstream media. Of course, you will not hear anything substantive about either of these things on your evening news - not even close. Unless you start thinking and doing for yourself, you may as well sit back and be mindlessly entertained by your television, and take a massive gulp of the cup of kool-aid in your hand while you enjoy the show. I think there are a lot of “good” Catholic people out there in the world with a lot of good intentions, but most of them have not taken an objective look at the history of the papacy in wars and world history.