El papa demotes bishop of bling.
Pope Francis called Christian fundamentalism a sickness.
And so on…
I am a recovering Catholic, fiercely atheist, and I kinda like the guy a little, but somehow I think he will end up pissing off one too many people. Am I the only one that fears for his life?
Probably.
The forces of Conservatism in Rome know that, for now, what he’s doing is great PR, but he’s 76 and not likely to be around in ten years. They can wait.
As far as I’m aware, the only issue that causes fundamentalist Christians to resort to violence is abortion. As long as the Pope continues to oppose abortion rights, I can’t see anyone wanting to kill him for these types of doctrinal disagreements. As for the prosperity theology people, they’re thieves and con artists, not killers. Are there really modern cases (outside of abortion) of people being murdered because their Christianity or Catholicism isn’t conservative enough?
Catholics have been ignoring the Pope when he says something they don’t agree with for decades. The only difference is that instead of liberal Catholics ignoring the Pope for being too conservative for their tastes, we might have conservative Catholics ignoring the Pope for being too liberal for their tastes.
First, stop watching the Godfather Part III!
If he is in any danger, it’s solely because he eschews Popemobile-style protections. But even then, people are always trying to tie in Mehmet Ali Ağca to a conspiracy, but he also represents the random crazy person that you can hinder, but not remove him from the equation. The Mark David Chapmans of the world.
The main real threat from ultraconservatives is bolting to sedevacantist or SSPX groups. But not in numbers that matter.
That and, anyone who follows theology slightly will note that while some of the things he said are radical, many follow the old line (it’s okay to be gay, just don’t be gay with another person). The emphasis on poverty over other concerns is a new thing, which I endorse. US Republicans (and Democrats for different reasons), you don’t like abortion/gays/whatever, okay fine. But those issues should be like #16 and #17 on your priorities.
SpoilerVirgin, as far as I’m aware, extreme abortion protesters in the US are a mostly evangelical Protestant movement.
I read an article about some conservative Catholics reaction to Francis and they’re a bit upset with him. But at the same time, they feel they have to put up with it because God works in mysterious ways and who are they to question it? They figure God must have a plan they’re not privy to.
I’m busy taking notes here, since I have been running the Death Pool.
This is a pope who didn’t move into the traditional papal apartments, the highly ornate ones in the Vatican. He has a little, plain place, I’ve seen the pictures of it. Pope Francis doesn’t use the armored Popemobile, he actually touches people.
And not just cute little kids. The pictures of the ending of this papal audience have gone viral by now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/wp/2013/11/06/photos-pope-francis-embraces-disfigured-man-covered-in-boils/
I may not agree with all of Francis’ beliefs. But he seems to be closer to people than even JPII was.
MIghty Girl, we will welcome you to the Death Pool this year!
Jeez O’Pete!
That was heavier than expected for this ex-catholic at 6-a.m.-in-the-morning!
That’s my new word for today ! Google informs that it refers to Catholics so conservative that they consider that the last genuine Pope was Pius XII – all succeeding ones being modernising heretical impostors.
Well, SDMB is meant to be educational – and it certainly is.
Not only that, but they also are quite used to ignoring the pope, as he has little to do with their Christian lives. I mean, quite a few have thought that the pope is the antichrist for years, yet none have tried to do anything about it.
Catholicism to fundies is at best a bunch of misguided Christians and at worst a cult of idolatry. Why would they care what the leader thinks?
Well, strictly speaking, a sedevacantist is one who believes that the seat (the Throne of Peter) is empty now. Many sedevacantists may well believe that “the last genuine Pope was Pius XII – all succeeding ones being modernising heretical impostors,” but it’s possible that a sedevacantist might believe that all popes through Benedict were legit, but that Francis is not, for some reason.
I’m not Catholic but really like Pope Francis. He’s the most sincere and caring Pope that I’ve ever seen. He let a kid interrupt his sermon a couple weeks ago. Just this week, he stopped speaking to embrace this guy covered in boils.
Compared to the other stiff and pompous popes he’s pretty remarkable. I hope his health stays strong for many years.
Picking a nit here, it wasn’t boils, it was tumors due to neurofibromatosis. You know, what the Elephant Man suffered from. There is no cure, there is only pain, and knowing that most people have difficulty looking at you. Yet Francis embraced this man. I wonder how long it had been since anyone but a doctor or nurse had touched him, even shaken his hand?
Quite honestly, “my brain hurts” – I’m glad I’m not Catholic.
True.
Anyway, Francis rose to the episcopacy and the College of Cardinals during the reign of JP2. That means he’s no wild-eyed lefty. But he brings in a fresher style and like **thelurkinghorror **writes…
…he’s mostly arguing for a change in emphasis and priority. And the thing with poverty is NOT a new thing (it goes all the way to Biblical sources) but that caring for the downtrodden had been relegated to the bottom of the list of priorities for so long.
Oh, and there ARE “ideological fundamentalists” within Catholicism – who for everything and anything that goes wrong will try to say it’s the fault of gays and abortion and the answer is to crack down even further on both. It’s just that in a certain cultural context they get drowned out by the more louder and often theologically wilder (e.g. Catholic hardliners are unlikely to claim that a Marriage Equality bill will directly cause a smiting via natural disaster, or that Jesus wants us to have guns) evangelical fundamentalists.
Well, more specifically that John XXIII was the first modern illegitimate pope. In other words, it’s not what P12 did right, but what J23 did wrong, in their mind. So they became the ultra conservatives against the Second Vatican Council.
The more liberal schismatics are the Old Catholic Churches/Union of Utrecht. They didn’t like the First Vatican Council.
I was thinking more of [del]poisoning[/del] quiet death while sleeping. You know, like that other pope.
Has he done anything that’s actually even pushed the envelope a little bit? I mean he’s said some moderately liberal things, but have any policies actually changed? I think he’s been a good PR guy (which isn’t valueless), but I’m not sure he’s done all the much to change things. His life is safe.
One could argue that this is not a new thing at all and, indeed, might be the oldest thing.
Sometimes it’s more about presentation and style than substance. His predecessor Benedict was a lead-footed numbskull who was about adhering strictly to very conservative policy and Francis comes across as much nicer and much more open, even if the policies don’t change.