Yes, if someone is deluded right now then they are “delusional,” by definition.
Either way. They may be delusional at the moment but there is always a hope they might improve.
Yes, that’s about right. Other people have gotten over being deluded. They could too. As far as the criteria for essential vs. non-essential goes, I think it’s more of a hope than an exact dividing line.
Regards
testy
Great definitions, well played. You’re right of course on the minor matter that I chose to frame (and my mistake there). But if someone thinks Martin Luther had nothing more in mind than flipping the bird at Rome, then that someone would be an idiot. Not that you are, of course.
Testy So we move forward out of a hope and nothing more? A projection of our own anema/animus? As to the criteria of whether or not we consider that person to be ‘deluded’?
mswas
No, the belief in the unprovable is a delusion and people believing in it are deluded. There are not many ways of getting around that. Nor is it merely a hope or out of animus. People can change, they can get past whatever religious indoctrination they received as children. I did, and many other people on this board have done the same.
[required Monty Python reference]
It’s like being turned into a newt, you can get better. S
[/required Monty Python reference]
Regards
testy
Has anyone mentioned the Hitler Youth yet?
I will!
Won’t somebody think of the children?
Is that what you meant? 
No, in his youth the pope was a member of the Hitler Youth. What is it they say? You can take the boy out of the Hitler, but you can’t take the Hitler out of the boy.
Yeah, I knew what you meant.
I have a hard time making my mind up how much that would have influenced him because I don’t know under what conditions he joined. Some of my RC friends don’t think of him as “the Pope,” for various reasons. I wonder if he knows he’ll never be as beloved as John Paul II. Or if he cares.
(a) Yes and (b) No.
Or at least it looks a lot like it, from his actions and words.
As I mentioned back at the time of JP2’s passing, having the “love” of the masses has never really been a major priority for the Pontiff. The normal aim is to become respected or highly regarded for scholarship, piety or pastoral leadership. The only Popes of the modern era from whose press one gleans “beloved” status among the common congregant are John 23 and JP2.
Everybody compares Benedict XVI to Emperor Palpatine, but this picture reminds me of someone far more eviler – Newt Gingrich! One lib commentator, I forget who, compared Gingrich’s habitual expression to that of “a two-year old who has just successfully smeared his face with chocolate pudding.” Pope Rat looks like Gingrich purged of all traces of childish innocence.
To be fair, membership in the Hitler Jugend was compulsory for all German boys, young Ratzinger (by his own account) never went to the meetings, and he later, during the war, deserted from the Wehrmacht. He cannot have been that much of a true believer in the Nazi cause.
So then is the person who believes that the delusion can get over their delusion due to their own sense of hope also delusional? 
Since when do I need to be fair to the pope? The man is a lunatic with a funny hat.
mswas
No, that argument won’t fly. There are too many people running around that demonstratably did recover so the hope and expectation that someone can get past the religious delusion is not a delusion itself.
You might claim that they are missing something essential and now are not the same people as previously, but that seems a bit thin.
Regards
Testy
So he is different to any other religious leader how? Oh yeah the hat.
It seems, looking at religion in general, the hallmark of a good religion is having the right stuff on your head.
you have your little Jewish hat, your Muslim head gear, your Hindu turban, your Catholic Popery hat, your Hari Krshna pony tails, your Mormon short back and sides.
Who knew hats and hair was so important to the god bloke.
The pope has more reason then nearly anyone else to proclaim being right…it’s his job! He has to say some seriously fairy-tale bullshit sometimes…he at least should think his crap is right!
Good on him for sticking to his job description.
