Looks like Hell is gonna be pretty friggin crowded.
Rome, Sept. 5 - A new Vatican dictum issued today declares that individuals can attain full salvation from earthly sin only through the spiritual grace of the Catholic Church and that other faiths – including Protestant Christian ones – have defects that place their followers in a “gravely deficient situation” in seeking salvation.
Of course, lots of people are rankled. However, how do we know The Church isn’t right? I mean, their authority “comes directly from God through the pope.” (emphasis mine) Even non-Catholic Christian churches “suffer from defects.” These are very bold words, coming from members of a well known, widely accepted, long-lived religious organization. Their strong faith and belief is not in question, so why are so many folks miffed?
In all fairness, here is the link to the full document, from the Holy See.
I’m just glad now that Protestants have be ruled false churches, I won’t have to defend or explain their nutso beliefs to the pagans anymore. I can now say “no church I’m familiar with believes the Bible is literally true” and be done with it
Hmmm…well…doesn’t every church believe that they are the ONLY true church? bah!
I’m Catholic, but I’ll be damned if I believe that…and I guess I’ll be damned if I don’t!
Damn!
“Religious Sect Claims Theirs is the One True Path!”
Yup, this is a yawner, and the other churches that are so “shocked” are merely engaging in political posturing. If anyone is really shocked that the Catholics believe this, then they must be living under a rock. Isn’t this, by the by, just a restatement of what has always been their belief anyway?
Mostly. Protestants still are and always have been heretics. But, in the interest of ecumenism (trying to rebuild one church) the Catholics for the past 50 years or so had taken to refering to some Protestant sects as “sister churches.” I think it is safe to say the RCC has “broken off talks” as it were.
the RCC has been keeping Origen under the rug for 1500 years. there’s no HELL to be saved from. like God can’t come up with a more intelligent way to run the universe.
I can’t say I agree with the Catholic Church on many issues. But unlike many other organizations at least the Catholic Church has the balls to make their beliefs known.
This is a specific document outlining the limits of theological exploration by Catholics. The target audience is the theological scholarly community, being encouraged to not get carried away and discard RCC doctrine when examining non-Catholic doctrine.
In effect, “Don’t forget where your roots are!”
It really is not much different (although it is probably longer-winded) than any other group’s statements of authority. If every group has equal amounts of “the Truth” then we ought to just hang out together. Unfortunately, every group figures that they have some aspect of the truth that no one else shares, and so they are unique/better/more enlightened/whatever.
Note, however, that contrary to the popular headlines (and the title of this OP), there is no place in the Declaration where it claims that only Catholics are saved.
The statement is that all salvation comes through Jesus and that the RCC is the best and purest manifestation of Jesus on earth.
In fact, quoting earlier documents, this declaration says
and, later,
My guess is that if Bush and Gore were having a louder fight, this would not have even made the newswires.
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God: You are now man. Man: Cool! What’s that mean? God: You are my creature. Man: Great! What do I do now? God: Whatever you wish. Man: Yippie! God, you rock! God: Wait a minute. Let’s make this more interesting. Be good, or you will find torment for all eternity. Man: Sure. What is good? God: I am good. Man: Huh? I can’t be you. God: Nope, you sure can’t, loser. Ha Ha Ha! Oh, man! I crack myself up! Man: So, my fate is sealed and my existence is naught but torment for I can never achieve salvation. God: Hm. You’re right. That’s dull. How ‘bout this? If you constantly strive to achieve good, which you cannot truly comprehend, you will be saved and live in the land of happy, fluffy bunnies for all eternity. If you fail to strive for the good which you lack the capacity to objectively identify, you will find torment for all eternity in the land of slimy, prickly things . . . and, um, paper cuts. Man: So, you will torture me forever if I fail in my efforts to achieve that which I cannot possibly achieve by following a path that I cannot possibly identify? God: Oh, no. I will not torture you. I am good, remember? Rather, I will disown you and you will find torment in my absence. Man: Dude! WTF?! This sucks. You created me, right? You manipulate the universe as you please, right? God: You bet your Lilly white ass I do. Man: So, any suffering I come to is of your making! God: Nope. I’m good. Man: Screw this! I ain’t playin’. Take me out of this existence bullcrap. God: Sorry, too late. The ball is in play. Remember, I’ve got my money on you. Screw up and I’ll be very sad and angry. See ya! Man: I am so screwed.
I dunno, Satan, organized religion can have pretty big teeth.
Actually, I note that the quote you supplied was a paraphrase by some reporter. It may make little or no difference to your response, but just to keep the reactions honest, the objection to religious pluralism is not that
but that Catholic teachings are not on a par in God’s eyes with anyone else’s.
Face it, when comparing beliefs, all conflicting beliefs cannot all be true. (And, perhaps, they are all false.) It is hardly exceptional that an organization will remind its members of the tenets that it holds forth (and that they are expected to accept). There is no statement that Catholics are better than anyone else.
Everyone is free to be as amused or contemptuous as they wish, however, I would ask that you be amused by or contemptuous of the statements of the church, not of strawmen created by ignorant reporters.
It’s interesting that a conservative Christian board I participate on, most of whom are not Catholic, was not half so incensed as people here are.
First, the story is heavily slanted to make it “newsy.”
Second, is anybody truly shocked that the Catholic Church, which has always maintained it had the “fullness of Christian doctrine” while varying in its stance towards what anybody else has, has reaffirmed this idea?
Third, I don’t find it “arrogant” of any body to say what the limits of people claiming to speak in its behalf are. If they attempted to tell Protestant or Orthodox theologians that they should not go contrary to the Pope’s teachings, you might have a point. Telling a Catholic theologian that there are certain limits to what he can say and remain true to the Catholic faith doesn’t seem too far out of line for the Catholic church corporately to do.
how many people are still doing time in hell for eating meat on friday?
did that stop being a mortal sin in the 60’s?
did the catholic church tell God it was retroactive?
i think people who believe they can tell God how to run the metaphysical universe are totally hilarious.
These are the same people who got very tired of the folks at another board who oh-so-enjoyed putting the damning shoes on the other feet. I speak of course of the LBMB types who essentially put forth the old Chick tract/Catholic “Urban Legends”/Lies/Half-Truths that the RCC is evil, the Pope the antichrist and any followers of their rituals were DOOMED!
The same attitude caused my Protestant brother-in-law to openly question the salvation of my Catholic grandmother. Of course, he could have waited until the body was cold, but you know, him being a man of God and all… :rolleyes:
I think that the fine folks who eat their pizza off of checkerboard tablecloth are SICK of that shit, and do not want to add to the disharmony.
Noble of them, really. I applaud this.
And yes, the RCC didn’t say anything out of the ordinary and the position really doesn’t change (or shouldn’t anyway) the outreach to other Christian sects and even disparate theologies for understanding and peace. And yes, the media is making a bigger deal of this than it really is.
HOWEVER…
I maintain that this is no different than when I see a black male being arrested on TV for some heinous crime: It gives evidence to the small-minded that their hatered based upon skin color is appropriate and just.
And anything which gives evidence to hatemongers - whether they be racists or my brother-in-law - is something I hate to see. As such, I wish that the RCC might have NOT added fuel to a fire which has burned for how many centuries?
Yer pal,
Satan
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