Post-apocalypse RPGers; a moment of your time, please.

Cafe Society
21

OK, several interesting thoughts here.

Regarding mutants: I am surprised that I am in the minority in finding Gamma World mutants to be sort of stupid. For me, I guess, what I sort of have in mind is to not have mutants running around doing comic book mutant things (like lasers from the eyes, shapeshfting and so forth). This is not to say that I want a biologist to pick the thing up and say Yes! This is possible! Just that, insofar as I think that having mutants is an intrigue part of any post-apocalypse game I want to have them, and I would at least like a vague tip of the hat to plausibility.

One of the biggest issues, I think, that I had in Gamma World (besides the fact that I found most of the mutations themselves so silly that I was unable to suspend disbelief) is that for the most part the mutants had such a huge advantage over the pure strain humans that for the most part that is all that anyone wanted to play, and it felt unbalanced.

So, what I am thinking is to perhaps model some of the mutations after Shadowrun cyberware (things like stat boosts, and so forth), but to also have some edge/flaw system that must balance (perhaps you have, say, 10 edge/flaw points and can “spend” 5 for edges during character creation but have to take 5 points worth of flaws).

In looking at the back-story of “how did the world get this way”, I have a few thoughts. I kind of want to avoid straight out nukes, for the most part because I don’t really want to hassle with making up radiation rules. To be sure, you can do some hand waving around the issue because “things got lost and forgotten in the breakdown” but I am thinking something along the lines of a global economic collapse with all of the looting and civil unrest and regional isolationism that would be associated followed by some massive global epidemic.

The place that I want to get to with the world is that it is massively depopulated, there are small agrarian communities that are scrabbling to get by, scavengers that that glean what they can from the ruins of cites, raiders that prey on both (and may have set up little feudal militia type holds) and so forth. Oh yeah, and mutants.
I don’t know, off of the top of my head, necessarily what this will offer that others don’t. I think at this stage I am more doing this for fun, and to see if it takes on a life of its own that I am looking for a marketing plan.

22

I think, given all the responses here, that you need a backstory to your backstory, so to speak. In other words, events leading up to your environment need to have been started before your story actually begins.

For instance, before the global calamity commences, science needs to have advanced to the point where mutants where at least plausible. Where genetic engineering has advanced to the point where human “guinea pigs” (whether voluntary or forced) could grow wings, or have advanced mental powers, or whatever.

Then at least you have a plausible scenario where a few hundred years after the global calamity certain humans have mutant powers.

23

You might want to read some of S.M. Stirling’s recent works. The Peshawar Lancers is set in a world where Europe and North America were destroyed by a meteorite storm in the 19th century. That said, the book begins 200 years after the disaster and is set in the most advanced area of the planet (British Imperial India) so there’s relatively little “post-apocalypse” feel to it. Stirling also wrote a novella using the same background set in America which is still recovering. Another relevant Stirling work would be Dies the Fire where some greater power (some characters assume it’s aliens but it hasn’t been explained) decide to stop all advanced technology from working (they also send one group of people 3000 years into the past but that’s a different trilogy). This book is a good depictation of a modern society trying to survive and rebuild on the remnants of a previous civilization.

24

Plausible mutations tend to be- detrimental, useless, or boring to the general public. Albinism and hemophilia cause problems and shorten the lifespan (especially when knowledge of plateletes and sunscreen have been lost). I cannot think of something that qualifies as a useless human mutation at the moment. Beneficial mutations include Lance Armstrong’s increased lung capacity, or the shorter limbs and extra fat of Inuits. Players tend not to get so excited over those.

Yep. Pure strains had extra charisma, a better understanding of old technology, and were the only ones robots and computers would obey. If they had published settings books making it clear that most people were pure strain and that there was a lot of bigotry directed at mutants, things would have been more balanced.

That should work. White Wolf tried that idea in Freak Legion. They even (and I recommend this) went so far as to pair certain powers with certain taints (eg Regeneration healed wounds at unbelievable speed but almost always led to Accelerated Cancer). In reality, most animals with enhanced night vision are completely colorblind.

I advise to avoid known nuclear weapons. There have been threads on the effect of a full scale thermonuclear war- short version everything is a glowing crater. A superbug, naturally occuring or a bioweapon, destroys society with less mess. Conventional weapons can be used to destroy cities as necessary.

What do humans share this world with? Are there any new mutant species? Magic?

I’m not talking about a marketing plan. Games, and most other products, have to have something that grabs people and gets them to purchase. Paranoia is a game of betrayal, conspiracy and life in an inescapable complex ruled by an insane computer- and it’s a comedy. Vampire The Masquerade’s appeal wasn’t just playing vampires instead of staking them. Any decent DM could have adapted D&D, GURPS, or others so that vampires could be PCs. VTMs appeal was the gothic/punk atmosphere and viewpoint. In a GURPS Hellboy campaign, a DM can use Nazi scientists armed with 1940’s Style Death Rays as serious opponents. There are other systems whose rules allow such things, but they would be seen as camp.

What will your game have to grab people?

25

BTW: BinaryDrone, if you get this all together, give me a ring. I might consider publishing it for you.

This could work; remember that this sounds an *awful * lot like D8ngeons and Dragons with very weird treasure. Sorry, just sayin’. I could like that idea.

26

If you want to base your game on d20 rules, mutants could have a level adjustment like D&D 3rd edition does with nonstandard player races. For example, centaurs have 4 hit dice and a level adjustment of 2 due to special abilities, meaning that a player character centaur has to start at level 6 instead of level 1. If the other players start at level 1, the centaur character either has to come in later or start as an immature centaur with lesser abilities than an adult. You could work out mutants the same way.

27

A good read for a possible history that isn’t standard post-apocolpytic WWIII, nukes-type thing would be the comic “Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind.” A bit more magic, but otherwise this seems to be about the same level of destruction and rebuilding you seem to be describing.

Also I would note that, indeed, following 300 year old texts wouldn’t be too much of a hastle except for getting the resources. I am currently working in Japan, and even though everyone around me has their eyes bleed trying to read English documentation on our hardware, they still manage to make the stuff go. Humans just are good at filling in blanks.

28

Coincidentally, I am also in the process of writing up a post-apocalypse RPG.

Technology
An important question is when did the disaster happen? And under what political climate and cirumistances? Which way is the world going? Biotech, nanotech, cybertech or something else all together (maybe magic, as in Shadowrun?)

Survivors
How did the survivors, well, survive the holocaust? Were there warnings? Shelters to flee to? Or was it a conspiracy, and those behind it has already formulate plans to get their allies to safety? This is important to your question about technology, for it answers how the survivors grow up. If they grow up in a shelter in which life support system is complex, then they maybe okay with technology, or go in the other extreme and treat it like magic. Everything points back to the day of the disaster and how well-prepared people are. Who survives determines whether there are teachers, scientists and etc.

Re-grouping
What are the major hubs of the survivors? This is important, because it answers the question of trade - barter trade is common, but some things are not readily traded. If a government has been established (be it a company, remnants of world governments, some wacko feudal systems or an AI), the first thing is to bring fear and order, and currency falls under ‘order’. It may not be paper money, but maybe a precious but rare material?

Character creation
Never tried one before, but perhaps you want to go with life-paths. Who is the character descended from? Where did he grow up? How is his teengae life. Let the players pick a couple of backgrounds and cultures and create his character from there.

29

I loved my Pure Strain Human in Gamma World. He got very lucky rolling up his cyborg parts…

30

Actually, with some with some good old fashioned chemistry books, you can make pretty much anything. I’ve got a friend who, with his library, can restart the entire industrial revolution, starting from grass and deer meat.
P.S.: Have to say, I do not like Gamma World (and am irritated by d20, for that matter). It wasn’t bad, but I think it was overly hyped, and really didn’t do anything I haven’t seen before.
An idea I had was to combine post-apocalypse with star-faring fun. In this storyline-slash-game (but no slash fiction!) the earth made contact with aliens, of which there are only a tiny number and very few planets (less than 300 inhabited planets in the galaxy, and no known species in any other galaxy). Sadly, one species attacked earth and nearly wiped out the planet. Fortunately, enough humans were able to leave (the 3rd world, still the 3rd world then, got shafted in this) to ensure that humanity would live on. The ones left on earth to face the orbital bombardment are not pleased with their new space-faring cousins.

So anyway, we can have “lazer” guns, zooming all over the galaxy looking for bio-resources to restore earth, running from the savage, desperate tribesmen, and any strange tech the GM feels like using rolled up into one cute package. f course, it’s all in the presentation, but at least it gives everything a defined place in the game world.

31

Dunno, I would have a hard time making a Pentium II processor out of dear meat…

32

Heh. Well, we wouldn’t be back there that fast. Still, he can even get platinum off old electonics boards if he needs to.

But I did say restart, not rebuild instantly. :smiley:

33

Sounds a bit like Fading Suns. In that game the New Dark Ages are brought about by massive civil war, not alien attack.

34

Hey, I don’t mean to push GURPS. What I mean is that you should take your favorite game system…HERO or WoD of d20 or whatever, and use that for your game mechanics and focus almost entirely on your worldbook. Nobody needs another roleplaying system, what people want is an interesting setting that allows interesting adventures for small groups of people.

As for mutants, I think what BinaryDrone is getting at is that he doesn’t want mutant characters to be X-Men style superheroes. Mutant powers have to be subtle. No laser eyeblasts. But you could have nightvision, or enhanced senses, or an enhanced characteristic, or maybe psychic powers. And mutants will probably have “realistic” bad mutations…albinism, hideous apperance, hemophilia, dwarfism, a lowered characteristic, or whatever.

Another way to balance mutants with plain humans is to declare that all mutants come from feral societies, only plain humans can come from agricultural enclaves. Mutants would have limits on the skills they are allowed to start with, and would have no knowledge of pre-Apocalypse technology.

35

It’s not a new idea. But fading suns is pretty dark and depressing; it was World of Darkness in space. This was intended to be action-adventure, like *Raiders of the Lost Ark *… in space.

If **BD ** wants ideas on mutant powers, I’m sure i can give him a list. Many powers from the old *Deadlands Hell on Earth * mutation thingy would fit well.

36

Yes please.

I sort of like your star-faring idea as well. I had a similar thought, though I am not sure if it is silly or not, and the scale is smaller.

I was thinking I might have it so that just as things went all to hell, the Earth had set up a Mars colony that was almost at the point of self suficency. They could have just reached the point of not scrabbling for survival, and have sent a small scouting mission to try to re establish contact. Characters would probably start with better tech and the like, though I would have to think of a few nasty disadvatages as well.

37

This is just right, and I like the second suggestion as well.

38

Enhanced senses, strength, dex etc are all plausible mutations. Psychic abilities are less plausible than most of the GW stuff. Humans don’t have wings, natural armor, the ability to change the color of their skin to match the background. But, there are animals that do have those things and we can point at them and say it’s possible. Psychic abilities go against the laws of physics and have no possible explanation.

While the other stuff is plausible, it ain’t that exciting unless taken to the level of comic books. Not to mention that if there are negatives, there must be balancing positives. This week I’ve been building a character using a first ed Shadowrun book. Aparently the designers were worried about giving metahumans too many advantages. So the character creation system includes a huge negative which not only counterbalances, but bitchslaps and chases away the positives of playing a metahuman. To play a metahuman, you have to give up way too much.

The system shouldn’t give mutants an advantage over norms. But it also shouldn’t be “My character can’t start with any of these skills, faces anti-mutant prejudice, has hemophilia, and I get +1 to my speed!”

39

Well, I agree with you about pyschic powers. There are no such things as psychic powers, they are completely make believe. However, this is a game of make believe, so if BrainGlutton wants mutant psychic powers I’m not gonna tell him no.

Psychic powers are a science fiction tradition, especially in post-apocalyptic fiction. I think it would be great if we ditched the idea, especially if you want a realistic tone instead of a cinematic tone. Or better yet, let the players THINK psychic powers and/or shamanism work, but in game terms it’s all nonsense. Everyone knows that mutants have psychic powers that can twist your mind, except everyone knows wrong. The mutants themselves can self-deludedly believe they really do have powers, or they cynically pretend to have powers to fool the humans.

Another way to handle mutants is to imagine that several non-human races were created by genetic engineering prior to the disaster, and some self-sustaining colonies of genetically engineered organisms still exist. No “one from column A, one from column B” style mutants, rather a dozen or so stable mutant types. So you could have Eloi, Morlocks, Gillmen, uplifted dogs, and Epsilon Servitors running around, but no mutant bands where every mutant is different from every other mutant. I always thought Gamma World was odd because the player characters were these one-off mutants, but the NPCs were from mutant “species”. Pick one or the other (or neither).

I don’t think resticting mutants to feral skills is that big a disadvantage, depending on the focus of the campaign. Every party needs a ranger type. This does limit the character conception of a superintelligent mutant technologist though.

40

I know that this is off topic, but what the hell, I am the OP. Have you looked at the point based character creation for (I believe) 2nd edition? It was in one of the expansion books as I recall, but I can check when I get home if you like.

Basically, you have X character creation points and use them to buy stat points/skills and the like as well as your race, or if you are magically active and your starting cash. They also have a system of edges and flaws similar to what I am kicking around (so for example you could take the “police record” flaw to pay for edges like extra stat points, or other abilities). I liked this a whole lot better as a player because it gave you total control over the character and how well he turned out was only really limited by your imagination. As a GM, there were times that it could be a pain in the ass because it did lend itself to folks making ultra tough characters that were technically legal, but not really in the spirit of the game.

On the topic of mutants for my game, I totally agree with your caution that there needs to be balance. I do like the notion of paired positive mutations and defects that were mentioned earlier so, for example you might pick enhanced strength but have to take the “knuckle walking” defect because of the different muscle and tendon structures. I do want to be careful with this, though, because I don’t want to create a bunch of mutant “races” to replace elves or trolls or the like. They should be unique, so this may take a bit of thought.