Scenario: $0.25/$0.50 Ante for SB/BB, cards dealt, pre-flop, action is to the left of the BB.
Position: First player
Question: Since $0.75 is in the pot (SB/BB antes) is the max bet in first position only $0.75. If not, is there another (subjective) rule for how pre-flop betting takes place?
The maximum raise in pot limit is always the size of the pot PLUS what it costs you to call any existing bet. In other words, in your example, it costs the under-the-gun (first position) player $0.50 to call the big blind, so the maximum raise is $0.75 (size of the pot) + $0.50 (what it costs to call) = $1.25. So if they wanted to make the maximum raise, they would have to put in a total of $1.75. Note that $1.75 = 7x the small blind, which is useful to know in Pot-limit tournaments when the size of the blinds keeps changing. This shortcut only works, of course, when no-one has called or raised beforehand.
To extend your original example, say the under-the-gun player makes the maximum bet of $1.75. If the next player wants to make the maximum raise again, this is now $2.50 (size of the pot) + $1.75 (what it costs to call the standing bet) = $4.25, so they would have to put in $6.00 ($4.25 + $1.75). Clear?
Not entirely clear… I understand that:
however, i do not understand how you get to:
did you count the $0.50 twice, or am I missing something simple and obvious?
Sort of. You count the .50 once to calculate the maximum raise (here $1.25), but then you “count” it again because you’re already on the hook for .50 just to call. So to raise the max, you need to put in $1.75 – fifty cents to satisfy the bet as it comes to you, and then $1.25 worth of raise. Then, the minimum the next guy has to put in the pot to stay in the hand is $1.75 to call, and then can raise up to an addition $4.25 – after he’s already satisfied his requirement to call at $1.75.
So the reason you count twice is that you use the current bet to you first to calculate your raise limit, but before you can raise at all, you first need to throw in enough to call.
–Cliffy
Thanks… I think I got it now… also, I found this site with a clear explanation.
At the risk of confusing the issue further (and teaching you how not to act in a live game), you may find it easier to think of it in terms of “call and raise”. Say the action comes to you in first position, with the small blind having put in $0.25, and the big blind $0.50. So it’s $0.50 to you to call. You want to raise, but first you have to call the $0.50. So you call the $0.50, which makes $1.25 in the pot (small blind + big blind + your call). You then want to raise, and the maximum raise is the size of the pot, $1.25. If you then raise by $1.25, you have put in a total of $1.75 - your original call of $0.50, plus the raise of $1.25.
The reason for my parenthetical remark above is that doing anything like this in a live game (i.e. saying “I call and raise”, or throwing $0.50 of chips in to the middle and then moving more chips in), is what is known as a “string bet”, which is against the rules in virtually all formal poker games. The main reason for this rule is to avoid misleading other players about your intent, which can cause problems. The simplest way to avoid being accused of this in most games is to clearly announce “raise” before moving any chips at all. That will usually allow you to move your chips as you like after that without penalty - ideally you should stack the correct amount of chips behind the “line” (if the table has one) and then push the stack in to the middle in one movement.
Better still, announce the amount you intend to raise (e.g. “raise to $1.75”, or “I raise the pot”), though this may mean you cannot then change your mind about the amount. Also, remember you can always ask the dealer for help on this - that’s what they are there for.
Wow, this is exactly what I was going to say. I remember back in college home games, people always were “call and raise”-ing. I had to unlearn that terminology, but it’s useful to (silently) remember it in pot-limit games.
If you’re cool, you can also just say “Pot it”, meaning you raise the pot. And if you’re really cool, you just wait for the dealer to count the pot and tell you exactly how much to put in… wait, I think I meant “if you’re really lazy”… 
If you’re really lazy, you simply throw a large chip into the middle without saying anything. In most games, this will result in the maximum raise. The dealer will make the change for you! Needless to say, the dealer is rather more appreciative of you clearly announcing your action and then placing the correct amount of chips in the middle.
No no no. In most games tossing in a big chip without saying anything is a call.
Always say your action is my tip.
I play plenty of No-Limit and Limit but haven’t ever played Pot-Limit. What are the main differences in strategy? It seems to not be all that different to me.
In the club I play in:
‘call + raise’ gets you an official warning from the dealer and dirty looks from the other players
throwing in a big chip is ‘call’ (and the dealer breaks it to give change)
saying either ‘call’, ‘raise’ or ‘fold’ first is welcomed; saying ‘raise to £5’ and putting in that amount of chips moves the action along smoothly
Quite right - I probably meant to say you can announce “raise” and then toss in a large chip, which would then be a maximum raise.
It’s not hugely different from no limit, particularly in situations where the blinds are high compared to chip stacks. The main difference is that it is more difficult to scare people off pre-flop, due to the limit on the opening bet. This means that in some situations, you can get more value out of not being the first raiser pre-flop, because if you are the second (or third) raiser, you can raise a much larger amount.
I don’t play any Limit so I don’t feel qualified to comment on that.
We have a friendly neighborhood game, so Pot Limit is more “civilized” for our game then No Limit. It prevents huge pre-flop raises, and promotes more post-flop action… there are still pots in the $20-30 range, but many in the $10 range, which works well with a $20 buy-in and $0.25/$0.50 SB/BBs.
In other words, more people are likely to see the flop, but less people are likely to hang around for the suck out you often see in limit games.