Wrong. Listen, we’re on the same team now, so I hate to bring this up, but there is a large social network that cares for anyone who chooses adoption for their newborn child. There’s even tax support for it. I know, I know, they’re still awful people, I’m sorry to even mention it.
You have the right to think that if you wish…How many do you support? It is not political but a matter of civil rights. It is legal for a woman to control her own body. How many children did you carry in your womb for 9 months and how many did you lose through a miscarriage? It would be very good if we could avoid all abortions and many of the people who are against birth control and the morning after pill would see there would be less need for abortion. You seem to find an easy reason to hate!!
I do not speak for anyone but myself and I would not push my beliefs on others. The law shouldn’t be based on beliefs, but on what is good for the majority.
Did you ever know the hurt that some people feel that had to give up a child for adoption. I have friends who have, and regret it, plus some who are married and didn’t want to do that. One woman I knew many years ago died in childbirth and left 9 children motherless because she didn’t believe in birth control.
I agree completely
None. No womb. I’m looking into a lease arrangment though.
Just those pro-life jerks. They make it easy.
Every law pushes a belief on others. And “good for the majority” does not trump certain individual liberties. At least it didn’t previously, but our country is morphing into something different before my very eyes.
But let’s not quibble. We’re on the same team, after all.
Every single, solitary claim made above is wrong, and this is documented in the cites provided. Oh well - facts can’t be used to refute a position that is not fact-based, after all.
Ewwwww!
Drinking paint is sick!
Regards,
Shodan
Hey, that’s my choice, not yours! How dare you judge me.
Right, so it’s a good thing I never made that fallacy that you keep attributing to me. With regard to the OP’s question of what this group wants, my irrefutable logical declaration is that you can’t prove that they support any of the moral alternatives that people suggested… nothing except what they say on their website. That is portion of my argument that consists of logic that you have no hope of disproving.
My other comments were rhetorical and intuitive, the point being gee, these groups so rarely support anything other than removing access to abortion, that why would we expect anything different from this group? And oh, hey, look at their website. By golly, they don’t mention any of those other noble goals they mentioned.
And oh gee, I did make the rhetorical flourish of saying “never” when I meant “vanishingly rare”. It wasn’t part of a logical argument, so big whoop. I intended it to show that we can generally guess what we find when we go to a website of a group like this, and surprise surprise, I was right. What a big coincidence. Not a logical proof of anything, but interesting to note that here is yet another non-exception to the pattern. It is their website, they have the space to say absolutely anything they want, promote any goal they want, and strangely they limit themselves to talking about the big push to pray the demons out of abortion clinics. It doesn’t prove that they don’t support things that they don’t support… but again, it proves you can’t support assertions that they do.
Interesting. Show me the one of those cites that talks about contraceptives and preventing pregnancy. Show me the the one that talks about how they’re going to help the mother raise that child (and no, an overnight shelter where they can house the mother while they browbeat her into not getting abortion doesn’t count as “helping raise the child”, sorry).
That’s not what was at issue. It was that you assigned some “always” and “never” attributes to pro-lifers, then used this website to support it, then got called on it. It’s a pretty twisted syllogism you’ve constructed.
It’s not a big whoop. I said so before. You needed only say that you overstated it, and we’d have been done. But you didn’t. And I was here to show you the error of your ways. So all’s well that ends well.
The OP asked what this group wants. I said “Gee, I wonder, because they never support that other stuff.” I pulled up the website of that exact specific group in the OP’s query, and oh my gosh, there’s a total lack of support for the other stuff. I mean, they don’t even go through the pretense of offering “abortion alternatives”. I only claim that this demonstrates yet another instance of a very common pattern, that these groups are generally silent on anything except “pregnant women should have their babies.” But if it makes you feel better, you can continue pretending that this isn’t what I meant, and you trapped me in some elaborate web of inconsistency based on what you think I meant. Knock yourself out.
No, you said this:
I am missing the “gee, now I’m just speculating” aspect of that unequivocal statement regarding what pro-lifers “never” and “always” do. When called on it, only then you tried to demonstrate why this wasn’t overstatement by citing this specific pro-life group, and failed miserably in the effort. It’s a bitch rewriting history in a written forum, isn’t it?
Perhaps if the pople who protest the clinics etc. used the correct term;‘Pro-birth’ (because all people I know that are pro-choice are also pro-life; they are pro-personhood) it would be more honest. An egg is not a chicken even if it is fertile and an embryo of a horse ,sheep,cow, (or any animal) is not the animal so biologicaly a human fertile egg is not a person and you can’t murder an egg, fertile or not!. Human life is in a man’s sperm and woman’s ova, and it is the same life that is in every human. Life began eons ago.
I must add that as a former believer, we were always reminded that if abortion isn’t stopped, then big bad angry god will ‘smite’ our precious country by turning his back on it. We will no longer be a “Christian nation”. And when that happens it’s anarchy, sex & murder in the streets, our churches will be burnt to the ground, Christians will executed on site, the door for satan will be open…blahblahblahblah
So we can say that FEAR is one of their primary motivators. Fear cannot be reasoned with.
They know nothing about a fetus, pregnancy, gestational stages, sentience, biology or anything else that might tell them it really is non-sentient cells, no pain or awareness to the fetus. They don’t want to know. If they did they would have to let go of their bloody baby fantasy.
All they see is “goddit”. It’s deep-rooted ignorance, ugly, nasty, willful stoopidity. And we should be able to call it what it is. No pulling punches. You’re offended, tough sh*t. You should be. Blatant ignorance SHOULD be ridiculed and called out.
It’s egotism to the highest degree, “god made us”, “soul of the child”, “sanctity of life”. It’s the same reason they deny evolution, “I didn’t come from no monkey” “god made hoomans special” “he created us in his image”. Bullsh*t.
Sorry. You’re a primate and so is a fetus. No miracle. No gods were involved in the making of this zygote.
I will put how I pray, that God turn the heart of the parents towards their children, pray that women are not stigmatized for getting pregnant, pray for respect for mothers of all ages, pray for Love of Christ towards these women.
I also pray that these women realize that their heavenly Father loves their child and He will support them.
I also pray against the lies that have been told to the woman that makes her believe that abortion is a good option.
I also pray for the aborted, that the Lord lead them to life.
So do you carry a sign saying “pray to end abortion” outside od Planned Parenthood?
There are lots of ways to want abortion to end. Myself, I want for contraception to become destigmatized, freely (literally) available, and 100% effective. If people got wise enough to know in advance whether they wanted a baby and only refrain from using contraception if they’re sure they deliberately wanted it and could afford to keep and support the resulting child that would be awesome as well. If all of this happened, then no abortions would occur. However, I’m not considered to be anti-abortion. And in my opinion outside of Planned Parenthood is the diametrically wrong place to protest anything, since they seek to be the cure, not the problem.
I think that people who carry signs outside of PP are opposed to the things that PP stands for - abortions, and contraception. And that their prayers target those things specifically, rather than the underlying causes.
No I have never done so, and I don’t feel lead to ‘protest’ as such. I do really hate those places and believe they are the places where children are sacrificed to Baal, thrown into fire, and those are the children who are ‘passed through the fire’ as described in scripture. I do believe those children suffer intensely, I also believe the women are deceived and therefor blameless, but suffering because they are eternally connected to their child.
Contraception is close to 100% and is pretty much almost totally destigmatized already, and at very low cost, free for many, esp at the lower income range. How is that effecting abortion? Are you praying for abortion to end by this, how is it working as we approach it?- we are getting close to your prayers being answered.
I also feel protesting is the wrong way, though it may be a chance to reach the heart of a woman and child (fetus), but in general the way is Love.
You need not be a beleiver to make an effor to follow a rule.
Rule #6 - You shall not murder.
So simple that one easily dismisses its scope and intent. But those that get it are fervent in its enforcement. It is not just a rule it is, in context of the other rules, an appeal to your intelligence to find other methods to resolve differences short of the cop out of “A Final Solution”.
Fear is an excellent motivator and I offer the fear mongering over global warming, over population, and swine flu is effective to effect some changes but then rational thought prevails and something less than “A Final Solution” is or will be devised.
Are we capable of being the arbitrators of the life or death of Your loved ones stricken with dementia, Alzheimer, other extreme mental impairment are they alive or just non-sentient cells or something in between?
Fearful of the possiblity even with a high improbibility of their rightness, you are.
If your justification for abortion is founded in a hatred for the proponents of life it sounds like a vendeta where the innocent are denied life by association.
You are the artist of your life. And as an artist you endeavor to render a life which is pleasing and fulfilling for you and those that surround you. This image of yourself is perfection but your efforts of rendering it true will fall short but you must make the attempt.
10,000,000 years or 10,000 years of random joining gametes were required to produce your unique zygote. HooRah for that!
They is you! And they pray for guidance, as others meditate for peace, while more seek nirvana, and a few grok to fullness while most it is hoped just go for a long walk holding hands. It is all the same
From focusonz:
[QUOTE=focusonz]
You need not be a beleiver to make an effor to follow a rule.
Rule #6 - You shall not murder.
Wrong. Abortion is legal under US law.
Are we capable of being the arbitrators of the life or death of Your loved ones stricken with dementia, Alzheimer, other extreme mental impairment are they alive or just non-sentient cells or something in between?
Partially correct. A loved one with any condition, whose absence of brain activity has been determined by EEG or other medical testing would be “non-sentient”. I feel it would be highly unethical & cruel to keep such a person alive out of godfear or a selfish wish to avoid loss. I would wish that all humans the could have opportunity to die with dignity.
If your justification for abortion is founded in a hatred for the proponents of life…
**Wrong. On the contrary, I celebrate the proponents of life. I have 2 daughters, now beautiful young women, who I look upon with such pride & hope. It never ceases to amaze me what the living body can do. The beauty & the power of nature are new to me everyday. **
The rest of your reply is undeserving of my thoughtful response as it is meaningless godfluff and strangely nonsensical. You are not capable of complex intelligent discussion that doesn’t insert godfairy dust. I do not “scatter my pearls before swine”.[
If God is all knowing, loving etc. then prayer is unnecessary. If My children nagged me about things I already know it needs I would be insulted! To tell a father." feed your child", when the child has just finished a good meal would be an insult to the father. To give a child something the father knows would be harmful to the child, or to ask the father to give it would be insulting!
I would not give my child anything that would harm it or hold back anything I knew was good for that child and I sure would expect a Good all knowing God to be better than me!
You forgot to add that you would pray for all the abused and neglected children, and those starving to death in Africa and other 3d world countries.I think food, clothes, shelter, health services, emotinal needs, etc,would be better and do more good than prayer.
Why not just pray that God will not let a sperm hit and egg in a person that isn’t ready or able to care for a child. That would solve the abortion problem, and only wanted and children that could be cared for, and loved, would be concieved?
I find it strange that the God who closed up the wombs of women in the OT to punish them, would now let it be possible for a woman to abort a fertile egg or a later embryo or child. Why does He let a woman who He knows is incapable of taking proper care of a child and knows that the child could starve to death because of poverty, concieve?