I didn’t mean in this thread, I meant in general.
Based on what we know so far, the air marshal was acting within reason. That doesn’t make this any less tragic, especially since the guy’s wife was just a few paces away (not sure if she witnessed the shooting, but she was damn close). As for this pre-emptive pitting, I think it’s called a strawman. Wait for some bleeding heart to pit the air marshal before getting all up in arms about it. Sheesh…
The air marshal wasn’t being hasty on the trigger, but the OP may be.
Well, luckily no one gets killed because of a pre-emptive posting!
I’m anti-gun, anti-unnecessary police violence, bleeding heart, bla bla bla - but no, I can’t fault the air marshal’s actions as reported.
Sad story, but what should he have done? I’d be happy to be flying on a plane that I knew that air marshal was on.
We can send a man to the moon, but we can’t figure out how to immobilize a suspect w/o killing him. Now, that’s some government financed research I could get behind!
Where did I say one should wait until the gun was levelled to fire? That would be stupid. As to your other point, there’s too many “what ifs” for my taste. There are scenarios where the shooting could have caused the putative bomb to detonate. If you can show me solid statistics that show where employing deadly force before a weapon is evident saves significantly more lives than waiting until the presence of a weapon can be reasonably determined, you’ll have a case.
I pre-emptively pit your next pre-emptive pit that also misfires.
Would be nice, but I’m not sure it’s even really practically possible. Anything you can do to quickly subdue someone under similar circumstances is going to be lethal to some percentage of the population anyway. If nothing else, rendering them rapidly unconcious is going to result in a certain number of fatalities due to falls and other unintended reactions. Some so-called nonlethal measures can trigger secondary medical problems, resulting in death. You also have to worry about the opposite case; a given tactic may be ineffective in some percentage of cases, merely enraging the offender and causing him to shoot, possibly killing nearby innocents or LEOs. When innocent lives are at stake, unfortunately lethal force is often the only way to guarantee their safety.
Allowing a criminal to pull a gun on a police officer is something you think should be the SOP?
Law enforcement tells you not to move or they’ll shoot, do you really think law enforcement should wait until someone moves, has a weapon in hand, and shows malicious intent before they should fire?
The simple fact that the suspect was reaching into an object, the law enforcement officer had no idea what he was reaching for, means he had to act to protect himself and the people around him.
You’re holding law enforcement to an unimaginably high standard.
If the guy was yelling that he had a bomb and then reached into his bag after being told to drop it/get down/etc., I would think that it is a very logical assumption to make that he was reaching into the bag to trigger the bomb. Further, even if the wife was behind her husband and yelling that he’s off his meds, I assume the marshalls were yelling as well, for the guy to get down, which could make her hard to hear. Furthermore, even if she was yelling that he was off his meds, that does not automatically mean that he’s harmless. On the contrary, maybe he’d gone off his meds and as a result of that brought a bomb along! For all they knew, she might’ve been warning them.
There were witnesses around; we’ll get more reports of what went on beyond these initial remarks, and then we’ll see if there’s more to this story.
Bullshit. It’s a perfectly reasonable standard. By your standard, the officer would shoot a little old hard-of-hearing lady reaching into her handbag for her hearing aid. After all, he has no way of knowing she didn’t obey his order because she couldn’t hear him, nor what she is reaching for. I’m only suggesting that it’s prudent to wait until the officer has reasonable belief that an imminent danger to life exists before employing lethal force. Based on the article, as worded, it would not appear that that was clearly the case. Please note that, again, I am NOT saying that he didn’t have reasonable cause for his action, only that it is not clear that he did.
I’m leaning toward the Air Marshals on this one; however, the immediate response from law enforcement (and in this thread, for that matter) sound suspiciously like that following the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes, minus the immediate post-attack nervousness that had everybody on edge.
I’m going to reserve judgement.
The important question is, “Does the dead guy get 72 mentally ill virgins in the afterlife?”
I must say, the Google ads for this topic are just bizarre.
Pits are pits. 
Sorry Marty - guess I’m going to disappoint you too.
Among the SDMB, I am one of the more liberal members and not the biggest fan of law enforcement officials.
However, since September 11, 2001, the world has changed a lot. Someone yelling they have a bomb on an airplane? Wow, that’s about the worst possible thing for any passenger to say.
Granted, the passenger was mentally ill but it does make me wonder why the Hell he was flying anywhere in an airplane. If his wife knew her husband didn’t take his medication was it wise for her to let him board the plane? Not that I am trying to place blame elsewhere but sometimes people should realize the consequences of what they are doing.
Then again, I may be judging long before all the facts are in, but I am not pitting the Air Marshall.
Based on the early reports I heard on NPR and read in the CNN.com article, I would say that the Air Marshal did a good job. BTW QED, why should the Air Marshal wait to see a gun in this case.
I would be very worried about a bomb trigger.
Jim
For those interested, it is the subject of “Nightline” right now (11:35- 12:05)
I don’t know how someone can say they’re “not the biggest fan of law enforcement people.” These people do a job that has to be done, and it’s generally not all that well paying and it sure isn’t easy.