Interesting choice of words. The man turned out to be innocent of anything.
Yet you say “capped his ass” instead shooting to defend themselves or to defend the passengers.
That says a hell of a lot about you.
Fuck you asshole.
I am reluctant to wade into this but,
as I pointed out in post #133 above there is now a source independent of the federal marshalls (the plane’s captain) who is now supporting the version of events they have given. Apparently, he witnessed the confrontation. My reading of this is that he is saying Alpizar was shouting that he had a bomb. I realize it is from a second hand source but it is a **named ** second hand source which leads me to give it some credibility.
Nevertheless, this is still a tragic and very unfortunate outcome for everyone involved.
He didn’t have to have a bomb in his bag. Just a trigger. I know that only a small portion of checked baggage is screened, although I don’t know if the country of origin of this plane would be better or worse than we are at screening.
I assume that one could make a trigger that would look like a cell phone.
You believe the captain but disregard the passengers?
Why?
Wait a minute, is this a hypothetical. or did you hear something new?
Perhaps because the final event happened near the Captain and not near the passengers. Why are you so sure the Air Marshals are in the wrong.
Wait and see. You sound almost as insensible as Clothahump if you don’t wait for details and information to be forthcoming. Every quote from the passengers I read had them saying they heard shots, not that they saw the shooting. So if he said the “B-word” (boy is that a new stupid expression can we just say Bomb), it is possible that no passenger would have heard it.
Jim
PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR!
I’ve moved from being fairly sure the shooting was justified to being on the fence about it. I think I’ll stay on the fence from now on, until all the information is out instead of the bits and pieces dribbling to the media.
The second hand source does not actually say that the captain claims to have heard the b-word, only that “he supports the air marshalls.” That’s a vague statement which does not have to include hearing the b-word but could easily mean that the captain heard the AM’s tell the guy to surrender or that he saw the guy reaching into his bag. Until we actually have a witness who says “I heard the word ‘bomb.’” then we don’t have corroboration for that very key and specific claim.
And even then, some questions of credibility would still come into question. It appears from the story that I linked that the feds were trying to prod witnesses into saying they heard “the B-word” (the FBI interrogators actually used that exact phrase) and it wouldn’t surprise me if they couldn’t coax the pilot into saying he might have heard something that sort of sounded like “bomb” or maybe rhymed with bomb, or maybe that he couldn’t swear the guy didn’t say it. This is the kind of thing that requires almost nothing substantial for the feds to decide that a witness “supported” the AM’s.
Raises hands slowly up in air, making no threatning moves.
Hooray.
Please meet the rational man.
I was beginning to feel like Cassandra.
Have you not read any of the links posted? The captain was closer? How so? He was outside the cockpit meaning he was in the body of the plane with the rest of the passengers. They were deaf or what?
I said I’m inclined to give his version “some credibility”.
As to why, he witnessed the shooting and the passengers didn’t.
Believe me, I don’t like guns and I know there are cases where snap judgements have led to people overreacting in ways that cause tragic deaths. I am still among those waiting to find out more details before leaping to any rock solid conclusions.
You’ve been inside a plane, right? You know how they are set up, right? You know that coach passengers can be a long, long way from the cockpit, right? Where were these passengers? You don’t know and neither do I. He could have been saying entirely different things at different points in his passage.
DtC is making good points; you aren’t.
Where did the shooting occur? Just off the plane, I thought.
Where are the passengers? In the body of the plane near their seats or in their seats.
Where is the Captain? Outside the cockpit door, near the open exit of the plane.
So yes he **MIGHT ** have heard something the passengers did not.
I am not saying he did. I am not saying the Air Marshal’s aren’t lying.
I am just saying wait for more information.
Jim
I never meant to imply that he heard the b-word. I was simply stating that if he supports the air marshalls version of events that implies (to me) he heard the b-word as that is a rather crucial part of their story.
Then again I could be wrong. Like I said, I still think there is more to find out about how this all came about. I am open to the possibility that they overreacted. I’m also open to the idea that they thought he was a credible threat.
The marshalls claimed he was running up and down the aisle of the plane screaming “I have a bomb.” That’s pretty close to the passengers, yet not a single passenger has yet corroborated that.
And like I said, there is still no specific confirmation that the captain claims to have heard a bomb threat.
**DtC ** and **Lonesome ** are you already convince of the Air Marshal’s guilt?
I ask because you both sound as if you are. Even from reading 3 dozen articles and listening/watching the News, none of us can know what happen yet.
I give you they may have been wrong.
Do you accept they may have been in the right?
Jim
The marshal never said that, their spokesweenie said that. Re-read the dozen posts/articles quoting Dave Adams. Misinformation can be coming from both sides. He was shot outside the plane.
You are correct; we don’t know what the Captain actually heard.
The bomb story is looking a little weak and the spokesweanie probably has done serious damage to the integrity of the Air Marshals.
BTW: I have been having problems spelling this word all day.
It is marshal not marshall.
Not automatically. They killed somebody. The burden is on them to prove it was justified. If they can’t prove it was justified then what am I supposed to think?
Would you be willing to take them at their word, and their word alone that the guy said the b-word?
Actually no, I don’t think so.
If I just shot a man dead and realized I overreacted and was prone to lying, that is the lie I would probably make up.
I would also punch out that idiot Adams for making a statement that would hurt my case as much as his did.
I guess at this point, the only thing I am sure of is Adams is an idiot. There is even a chance it is not his fault and he was just parroting some other idiots words.
Jim