You must have confused something here. Obsolete currencies that were changed to the Euro, like Deutsche Mark, Spanish Pesetas, Dutch Guilders etc., have a permanently fixed exchange rate to the Euro.
Non-obsolete currencies, like the US dollar, the British pound or the Tschech Krone, do fluctuate daily in exchange to the Euro.
So if you try to exchange pre-Euro coins into Dollar, then yes, the rate will fluctuate daily, because Deutsche Mark -> Euro: fixed, but Euro -> Dollar: fluctuates.
The other thing that changes daily is the price that coin collectors pay for coins - whether current or not, currency coins or memorable issues, the value of these is determined only by demand. Was that what you meant?
Thank both of you for catching me. I was indeed referring to the exchange of the obsolete currencies expressed in US dollars. I do this quite a bit as I get quite a bit of them. :smack:
They’re obsolete as currency; you cannot use them to buy goods and services, or to settle your debts. They can be exchanged for currency at the relevant central bank, but there is not necessarily any guarantee that this state of affairs will continue indefinitely.
There are, however, some non-obsolete currencies that don’t fluctuate daily in exchange to the Euro. The Bosnian mark, for example. Its rate is fixed at around two marks to the Euro.
Actually, even pegged currencies fluctuate. ERM II allows up to 15% fluctuation, and a few of them have violated that at times. Denmark has a special treaty that pegs the kroner with only 2.25% fluctuation, and internal laws requiring them to keep it within 0.5%–but they still do fluctuate within that range. I exchanged some Danish kroner at 7.48:1 and then exchanged back at 7.47:1 a month or so later.
Does the EU require that they’re obsolete as currency, or is that up to each country?
When I was in Sweden in 2008, they were voting on a law that would require kronor to still be circulated or legal tender or something (my Swedish is very bad, but the video definitely showed people paying at the market with krona) for 10 years, even if they switch to the euro in the mean time. They’re already on their way to a de-facto two-currency system, even if they never switch. It was almost as easy to spend euros as kronor there; even some government agencies took them. (In Malmö, especially by the train station, lots of places took the Danish krone, too. At one restaurant, I paid in krone and got change in euros, so I tipped the waitress in a combination of krona and dollars.)
Does the EU require that they’re obsolete as currency, or is that up to each country? . . .
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From memory, the EU required the national notes and coins to be demonetised within a short time after the the date on which the euro notes and coins became legal tender. (Same date for all participating countries.)
From what you say, the Swedes may be attempting to negotiate entry on a slight variation of these terms. It seems a bit pointless, and indeed a right pain. Shopkeepers would have to keep dual pricing, two tills, etc, and for what? For obvious reasons, the issue during the transition period of Swedish notes and coins would have to be subject to the conrol of the European Central Bank. Plus people would probably prefer the euro notes and coins (legal tender throught the eurozone) to kroner (legal tender only in Sweden). In the eurozone countries, national notes and coins had all but disappeared from circulation within a very short time of the introduction of euro notes and coins, and certainly well before they were demonetised.
Someone who’s actually from Sweden would probably know better than some tourist who just watched the news one day and kind of followed what they were saying. But from what you say, it doesn’t sound like such a law would be enforceable, so my guess is it was either a stalling tactic to delay switching, or a meaningless sop to anti-euro voters.
Sweden signed the accession treaty in the 90s without negotiating any kind of Denmark-style opt-out, but ever since they’ve just used a series of tricks to avoid qualifying for the currency switch. All of the major parties want to go euro ASAP, but the people keep voting down every referendum they hold.
Yeah, that’s what I’d think.
But, as I mentioned, even though the euro isn’t legal tender, many places are already doing this (or even triple pricing, in some areas). Even automated systems often take both currencies (and return the appropriate change), and every ATM I saw offered both.
And, unlike Denmark, their currency is floating, so every shopkeeper has to know the exchange rates (or maybe their cash registers know?), and the automated systems do too. One of the funniest things I saw in Malmö was commuters to Copenhagen pulling out their cellphones to look up the exchange rate before deciding which coins to use in the coin locker that day. (How much could you possibly save per year doing that?)
That’s a good point. Right now, I guess it’s a bit of a toss-up–you can’t use your kronor over the border, but you can’t use your euros at a few local shops. So, you keep some of each. (Especially if you want to always be prepared to save a fraction of a cent at the train station lockers, I guess.) But once they go euro, there’s no good reason for anyone to want SEK anymore.
We’ve only had one(in 2003) referendum on the issue, and so far there hasn’t been any serious suggestions about holding another. Besides, the recent crisis with the Greeks etc hasn’t exactly increased the support for the Euro, so another referendum in the near future would most likely produce the same result as the first one.
I thought there was one back in 1995, or whenever the treaty was, and the people voted to approve the treaty but separately voted against switching to the euro, or something like that?
Also, while I have a real Swede here: I spent most of my time in Malmö and other parts of Skåne County. Is the whole thing with dual-currency ATMs, bike lockers, and shop tills common in the whole country, or just in the south (and maybe the far north, near Finland)?
There was a referendum in 1994 but that was about joining the EU in the first place, as far as I know(I was too young to vote back then) the issue about the Euro wasn’t discussed until later.
Personally I’ve never had a reason to even consider using Euro nor I have seen anyone else use them, but after looking at my bank’s homepage I can at least say that dual-currency ATMs are not universal, there are some but the list is pretty short.
I think what you saw in Malmö was mainly a ‘being close to the border’ thing, so in say, Stockholm, Gothenburg and up around the Finnish border you can probably get away with Euro, anywhere else I wouldn’t count on it.
Makes sense. I’ve pretty much only spent time in Stockholm and various parts of Scania, and, other than Malmö, I pretty much only did “tourist” things, so I wouldn’t expect my experience to count for much. Thanks for the info.
I know the triple-currency thing only happens in Malmö and Helsingborg (and maybe Höganäs and other western Skåne towns, but I never went there). Even as nearby as Lund, nobody wanted Danish kroner (but euros were fine there).
So, even though Denmark has a special treaty and special internal laws that supposedly make them stick closer than anyone else, they actually fluctuate more than everyone else. Wow!
Thomas Exchange UK Limited at 13 Maddox Street, London W1S 2QG (England) are still able to exchange many of the pre-Euro currencies such as the Peseta, Italian Lire, German Mark, French Franc etc etc. Some of these notes lose all their value in February 2012 so you need to off load them soon if you have any (Finland, France, Greece and Italy for example).
You can email them and they will let you know if the notes still have a monetary value (sales@thomasexchange.co.uk).
But from what you say, it doesn’t sound like such a law would be enforceable, so my guess is it was either a stalling tactic to delay switching, or a meaningless sop to anti-euro voters.