I’ve taken it for granted since when I first came out that my identity is contextual. That I’m explaining myself against a backdrop. And yes the backdrop has changed somewhat since I was 21. But not as much as I wish it had. I think if I were starting out now, I’d still be asserting the same shit from the same sense of being marginalized, just against a somewhat changed backdrop.
We had gay people in 1980. We had trans people in 1980. I was neither in 1980. I am neither now. Most of what I was up against in 1980 is still a problem for me now in 2023. There’s more awareness in the general population of trans people, and far more acceptance of both gay and trans people, and that should make it easier. It does make it easier to express myself and not worry about the reactions of others. That’s progress. But I’m still largely feeling erased and unacknowledged.
Why do you think most women who get breast augmentation do it? It’s almost always going to be because they think they will be more attractive - and that “more attractive” is going to be a feminine notion of attractive, not a masculine or even androgynous one.
Oh, gender variance has made an utter trainwreck out of sexual orientation as classically considered. “Heterosexual” and “homosexual” (aka “straight” vs “gay / lesbian”) are constructed on the assumption that sex is the same thing as gender and that there are two of them and everyone is one or the other.
I think of myself (these days) as “cis female, gender non-conforming”.
Does that qualify as “genderqueer”?
I feel very female. I dress rather mixed, but my outer clothing is more likely to be male-marketed than female-marketed. I don’t think of that as being masculine; I think of it as wearing what I’m comfortable in and what I find practical for what I’m doing. I’m not interested in, and mostly avoid doing, a lot of the traditionally female-coded things, though I am interested in others. I am interested in, and do, a lot of traditionally male-coded things, but not all of them.
I’m not sure that’s not a terminology question. Look at all those people saying they want children not to be taught gender identity in schools. We were taught gender identity every day, every minute of our lives, in schools – and that’s exactly what they want to happen. They just don’t think of firmly instructing children, in practice though not in these words, that ‘everyone is either male or female, this is which one you are, and it matters so much which you are that you must dress differently and play differently (and, in my childhood, line up in different lines and sit on different sides of the classroom)’ as ‘teaching gender identity.’
It can be problematic to focus entirely on dysphoria, but there’s a reason trans people are at such huge risk of being victimized and committing suicide. I think there’s a difference between thinking you would fit the feminine attractiveness archetype better if you had bigger breasts, vs actual body dysphoria where parts of your body that don’t match your gender identity cause enormous distress.
There’s a separate thing called body dysmorphia, which might be what some cis people have. I really don’t think most breast augmentation fits as gender affirmation surgery. I think that trivializes the trans experience and marginalizes trans people even within the world of medicalized transition.
Whereas i think it highlights the utter hypocrisy of gatekeeping surgery done on trans young adults, when it is nearly routine for cis young adults.
Top surgery is one of the more common gender confirmation surgeries that trans people seek. It’s low risk and high reward, in terms of increasing the odds that random strangers will checking identify your gender.
There are two young trans women that i square dance with most weeks. They sometimes wear falsies. And I’m embarrassed by how much difference that makes to me, viscerally, when i see them. It’s not that hard to strap on a pair of breasts, but binding away breasts is a lot harder, and i assume it’s rather uncomfortable.
Absolutely. But that point can be made without calling breast augmentation gender affirming surgery.
Breaking down gatekeeping barriers is a double-edged sword. I think anybody who wants it should be able to get gender affirming care (GAC) including surgery, on an informed consent basis.
However, some insurance covers GAC when it is done to treat dysphoria. I don’t know of any insurance that covers cosmetic surgery. I think it can be detrimental to equate what can be lifesaving surgery for trans folks to cosmetic surgery.
Yes, very. And when top surgery is unavailable, trans people sometimes resort to extremes that are physically dangerous and harmful. Transmasculine people who can’t afford a safer binder using dangerous materials, and binding too tight and for too long. Transfeminine people sometimes have tried to inject substances into their breast tissue, which is dangerous and harmful.
There are a lot of health-related things that insurance pays for or not, depending on the condition that led you to seek that care. Breast implants are covered for gender dysphoria and for breast cancer reconstruction, but not to enhance existing breasts. My antacids are covered by insurance because i have a diagnosed medical condition. People who just have painful heartburn pay out of pocket for the same drug. It doesn’t mean that they are getting a fundamentally different type of treatment, it’s just less critical to their health.
It’s not nearly routine in the sense that most cis female young adults have breast augmentation surgery . It’s routine in the sense that if a cis female wants breast augmentation surgery ( or a cis male wants breast reduction) , they will get it if they have the means to pay for it and there are no medical contra indications . There will be no requirement for a psych evaluation or to live with falsies or a binder for a certain period of time first.
There were 365,000 breast augmentations performed in 2021 (+44%). In addition, 148,000 women had implants removed and replaced (+32% from 2020), and 71,000 had their implants removed and not replaced
And no one seems to freak out that some people choose to remove their implants, and argue that therefore, they shouldn’t be done.
As I said, I absolutely agree that anyone should be able to get gender-affirming surgery on an informed consent basis.
I don’t think that requires us to equate ordinary breast augmentation with gender affirming surgery. Again, this trivializes and erases trans experience and existence.
There are US doctors who already offer top surgery on an informed consent basis, as long as the person can self-pay. Some do require one letter from a mental health professional. Bottom surgery often requires 2 letters. Typically, though, they will help the person find appropriate mental health professionals to provide the letters. I think it is uncommon now, or at least very uncommon in my part of the country, for there to be any required period of social transition to be completed first for either surgery.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think it trivializes trans experience any more than OTC antacids trivialize my Barrett’s esophagus. And i think it helps increase trans visibility. (Not much, but i think the impact is positive, not negative. It increases the areas where bringing up trans issues is relevant.)
I’m pretty sure it was a trans woman who pointed out to me the equivalence, around when she was getting top surgery.
But I’ll run it by a couple of trans friends, and see what they think. I don’t want to be accidentally insulting people.
The surgeries are very similar. Just like the antacid treatments are the same or very similar. Calling indigestion the same as Barrett’s esophagus would not be accurate, even if the treatments are the same. Ordinary cis-woman breast augmentation is not gender-affirming surgery, even if the surgery is the same or very similar to mtf top surgery.
That’s exactly why I don’t see it as gender affirmation surgery. Being perceived as an attractive woman isn’t the same thing as being perceived as a woman at all. I don’t suspect that most women who get breast augmentation are doing so because people tend to perceive them as masculine (or androgynous).
It would be like saying that a woman putting on girly makeup or wearing more feminine clothes is transitioning.
I certainly want everyone to be comfortable with their chosen pronouns, and I do try to call my daughter’s friends (and others) by their preferred names, but it is very difficult to keep them all straight (correct-straight, not sexually-straight). I often end up saying, “hey…you…”
It’s difficult for two reasons: 1) they have a lot of friends, with a variety of preferred pronouns, and 2) after decades of using “old school” pronouns, it’s hard to transition into thinking of typically plural they/them as singular. Whenever a daughter says, for example, they’re coming over, I think a group of friends are coming over, not one. I end up making a lot of mistakes, and doing a lot of apologizing.
Would it not be best for everyone if we could settle on a set of non-gendered pronouns that everyone would be happy with? Seems to me that would be the most inclusive, non-prejudiced, easiest method to adopt.