Prince Harry on 60 Minutes — what’s his story? Good guy? Spoiled brat? What?

I think Meghan’s American background probably is a factor. I think the only way you can accept the special status of the British royal family is if you grew up in Britain. Any outside coming in to the situation is not going to get why these people are so special and deserve this kind of respect and devotion. Meghan probably saw her in-laws as people rather than special creatures chosen by God. And her in-laws and the people around them, who do see them as special creatures chosen by God, probably saw her attitude as insufficiently deferential.

Checking further on Wikipedia, I see that Harry was two aunts and an uncle on his maternal side (Diana’s two sisters and brother) who collectively have thirteen children. Does he have a close relationship with this side of his family?

I’m not saying her being American isn’t a factor at all, but I think the “successful actress” part and her upbringing are bigger factors. Because I’ve known a shocking number of Americans ( usually, but not always women ) who are subservient to their in-laws ( or their own family) not because they think those people are special creatures chosen by God, but because those people can turn off the flow of money.

Is it that clear? Again, we only have one side of the argument here. To suppose that it is all the Royal Family’s fault and Harry and Meghan are blameless seems pretty far-fetched.

In any case, regardless of blame, if you truly do want to make things better it seems like a bad idea to continue making it worse.

Or you could compare it to having a job you hate but that you can’t quit, and if you get married to the woman you love then your wife will also get a job she hates but that she can’t quit.

I’ve had jobs I’ve hated, but at least I can leave.

Of course he could quit. It means walking away from an easy life and an easy source of cash but had he completely pulled the plug and had nothing further to do with the Royal family I think he would have been much happier and the press would have paid him far less attention.

I don’t know - must we? A reminder again:

That’s pretty damn melodramatic right there.

The “just ignore the bullies and they’ll go away” argument, while popular with parents everywhere, has never been effective and in my personal experience just makes things worse because you’re letting the bullies continue unchallenged. The press would not remotely “pay them far less attention” if they gave up everything about their current life, as they’ve made manifestly clear (as an extreme example, I wasn’t kidding earlier about the Daily Express running Diana stories almost daily for a decade despite her being actually dead).

There are things to legitimately blame Meghan and Harry for, but the things you keep picking on are their specific efforts to fight back against their long-time abusers. Demanding that they surrender and hide is not the answer and is itself aiding their abusers.

I think of it more as, she married into a lifestyle, and I don’t think she ever really understood that going in. Marrying into the British royal family comes with a set of expectations and obligations and rules; if you’re not interested in those, that’s a discussion to have BEFORE you marry in.

In a way, it’s not much different than a New York City girl marrying a Texas farmer: you’re going to be spending Friday nights at the football stadium and Sunday mornings in church, you’re never going to be able to go on vacation with him during haying season, and you shouldn’t expect the Wal-Mart in the county seat to stock your favorite imported culinary delicacies. Either you accept that lifestyle, or you and he work out accommodations, or you don’t marry him (or else you’re headed for some ugly times).

Being a British royal comes with far more public expectations and obligations. However, if Harry didn’t let her know about how vicious the British tabs can be and how she was never going to be the lead actress in this particular spectacle, then he did her a really grave disservice, and she really seems to have gone into this marriage blind as to what would be expected of her. I remember one interview where she seemed shocked that the palace communications team expected to be involved in vetting her interviews. When she’s speaking as a member of the institution, OF COURSE the institution expects to be involved; it was incredibly naive to expect otherwise. Did she not realize she was going to be a member of the institution after her marriage?

I feel that as an American, Meghan probably didn’t understand that marrying into a royal family would be at a different level than marrying into any other family. In other families there may be a power dynamic where the in-laws have a different lifestyle or where some family members control the money. But in most families, there’s an element of negotiation in these things even if you’re the weaker party. In the royal family, it’s assumed that the outsider will recognize their inferior status and accept their ongoing subordination.

As for Harry not making this clear, he grew up in this family. He probably isn’t fully aware of how different other families are.

I think it’s not so much ‘these people are special creatures chosen by God’, so much as ‘the world expects the earth of these people’. Being Royal is the ultimate gilded straight jacket. I couldn’t imagine a worse job. It’s not even a job, it’s your whole life. If it was just about being special and have people curtsey to you, I’m sure she would have been fine. It’s being constantly judged and criticised (as all the Royals are at some point) whilst having to dress 24/7 like you sleep in Harrods shop windows and opening yet another bloody care home which she couldn’t foresee.

I mean they do claim to be literally chosen by God though.

What if Meghan did understand all of it and was given an accurate warning by Harry but they decided that it would be stupid to let all of that bullshit dictate their lives, and if it got bad enough they would leave.

Sounds reasonable. Apart from trashing your family on the way out.

If only there had been some way for Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, and Her Royal Family to avoid it :cry:

Cite? If you’re referring to the Divine Right of Kings, I think the last King Charles to try and pull that one off came to regret it.

I’m not referring to the Divine Right of Kings. But the idea that they were put in this privileged position by God’s grace.

Are you saying the press or the royal family are the “long-time abusers”?

I don’t care in the slightest what they do to fight back against the press, go for it, people will cheer them on.

But venting your spleen on the people you want to reconcile with? Seems like a bad idea.

Absolutely they would. Live a modest and quiet life and the press would lose interest.

The next thing you’ll suggest is the he get some sort of “job,” like some sort of peasant.

Prince Harry of Styles (that is his proper title, right?) seems like a decent enough guy, and his wife is lovely as well. Like all of us, he’s had his share of problems (some of his own making), but he seems like he loves his wife, is kind to animals, and will make a good dad. As for all of this publicity? Hey, a guy’s got to make a living - I’d agree to write books or make shows if it got me millions of dollars and secured my personal future.

And, if these stories are to be believed, I don’t particularly begrudge him and Megan their decision to distance themselves.

I heard a story that they met with Will and Kate to try to reach an accommodation. It came up that Kate, while pregnant, had said something about being forgetful and Megan had replied that she had “baby brain” and it was probably hormones.

At this meeting, Kate supposedly scolded Megan, saying Megan didn’t know Kate well enough to talk to her about her hormones.

Later in the conversation, Will pointed a finger at Megan, who told him to stop. This was apparently a huge affront to Will.

From my casual vantage point looking in, it sounds like Kate is unbearably snobbish, and Will and Kate have fully internalized their future roles as King and Queen, such that they wouldn’t even abandon protocols in private.

Harry and Megan, meanwhile, seem less enamored with that station (as would be expected, perhaps, since they were never going to be at the top of the royal food chain), and that strikes me as a big source of the rift: one brother is leaning into the royalty stuff, and the other is turned off by it, and they’ve both married women that match their perspective.

I have known a few people who have lost a parent between the ages of 10–13.

Every single one of them was profoundly fucked up by it. Not necessarily debilitated, but profoundly fucked up.

Harry is from a family and a class and a culture, that, rather famously, isn’t terribly demonstrative emotionally. That’s without the life-in-the-public-eye aspect of things. I think it’s safe to say that he’s not the most emotionally together individual.

As an American married to a Briton, I can say from experience that in some ways the cultural divide is deceptive when you share a common language. I can easily imagine that Meghan was a little overconfident in her own individuality, and that this didn’t go over well; that the Royal Family was a little bit racist, and that THAT didn’t go over well. So they had a ton of baggage going in.

What he’s doing now is pretty much guaranteed to cement any rifts (to mix a metaphor). But I don’t know that he has the emotional wherewithal to see that, and I don’t know that I blame him: there’s a lot of unresolved issues, and, frankly, it doesn’t sound like he got the help he needed when he was a kid, much less in the last 25 years.

So he’s kind of a monster now, which is primarily a Harry problem, but a monster they’ve all had a hand in creating. Meanwhile, the rest of us LOVE a trainwreck where we watch people of power and privilege self-destruct, making us feel better about our own lives.

Personally, I think they should just spin off a couple of the smaller Commonwealth kingdoms (St Vincent and the Grenadines)? and let Harry and Meghan have those. Let them settle down into some sort of lower-key, modern monarchy, and just have the occasional awkward family get-together like the rest of us.