Matrimony and intamacy with your partner is a honor and priviledge IMO prisoners don’t deserve that right.
Ok here is a scenerio. Read this and tell me you believe that this prisoner should be allowed the honor and priviledge of marriage and sex in jail
(excerpt) …After stabbing all of his victims through the back and into their hearts, he would clean up after himself. Two of the females were raped and all were mutilated. When the bodies were found they were set up in sexual positions for whoever would find them. Two of the girls were also slashed from the breastbone to the pubic bone, and also had their chests mutilated. The most disturbing of the murders was Christa Hoyt’s, because she had been decapitated and her head been put on display. As for Manuel Toboada, his death had not been planned by Rolling initially as he did not know that Tracy had a male roommate. Danny Rolling’s motivation for his murders was mainly revenge. Built up anger and abuse had set him off on his killing spree, and in his mind he thought that others should pay for what he had gone through. The week of the murders Rolling had gone to see “The Exorcist III”, which shows strong similarities to the ways in which he tortured and murdered his victims.
Granted this is only one case but the idea is the same.
Can you honestly tell me that he deserves the RIGHT for marriage and conjugal visits?
Are you implying CrazyFoo that only prisoners that will (be released in XX amount of years) should receive this priviledge and honor and those who are on death row should not receive this priviledge and honor?
Are you implying CrazyFoo that only prisoners that will (be released in XX amount of years) should receive this priviledge and honor and those who are on death row should not receive this priviledge and honor?
When I was growing up my father told me that the government put “Salt Peter” in the food in order to deter the desire to have sex. Many years later I learned this was not true.
My question is. Is there something we can put in food to deter the desire for sex? Would that be appropriate to put in prisoners food? I don’t know of any real such spice.
We make an assumption that if someone is not incarcerated for the rest of their life that they are somehow rehabilitatable and will someday have to function again in society.
Which is a greater cost? Classes to give prisoners some skills to help them not reoffend or repeating the crime/trial/punishment phases endlessly?
My brother is in prison and he does deserve it. He will serve at least 5 years before he gets out. He has no trade and no marketable job skills. He is trying to get those things while in prison by taking classes. He also has a job in prison where he earns 50 cents a day. With that cash he has to buy his own clothes and toiletries. Prison is hardly a country club.
The food sucks - his entire building got food poisoning a few months ago. Privacy is pretty much nil. He cannot smoke in jail (which makes me very happy as I’ve been nagging him to quit for years)
I can agree that he shouldn’t be allowed to marry and have conjugal visits. I cannot agree that he should have no contact with the outside world and no opportunity to attempt to better himself so that just maybe he is one of the few who doesn’t immediately reoffend when he gets back into ‘the real world.’
You also make a dangerous assumtion about rape. It is not about sex. It is about power and control. It is about making someone your victim. And there are ways to rape someone without an erect penis. Rape is a crime of violence and dominance not sex.
Saltpetre is the base component for gunpowder. (Also used to preserve meat.)
I suppose that if it works it’s way down - er - below - and makes them - er - explode, that would certainly decrease libido.
I start from the basis that I am amazed at the instances of inmates being allowed nookie. Sometimes it seems to me that lobbyists for prisoner’s rights could employ their time much better elsewhere…
Is there any evidence out there that lack of sex causes physical or psychological harm?
Otherwise, I really see no justification for this bizarre exception to the “withdrawal of liberty” rule.
I think that prisoners should be taught a trade and offered an education up thru the high school years at the tax payers expense. However I do NOT feel that they should have the opportunity to a college degree at the tax payers expense.
What really baffles my minds are prisoners that are on death row getting college degrees at taxpayers expense. What good is a degree on death row going to serve anyway?
My 17 Year old was in a juvenile jail for 8 months. I was required to pay for EVERYTHING. I wasn’t cut a break for nothing.
My son was able to be rehabilitated. After all is joyriding in your mom’s car without a license something to be condemned for for the rest of your life? No. But i had to fork the bill not the county/state or taxpayers.
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I would like to point out a couple of things in the OP that I disagree with. (I hate multi-quoting, so I’ll just copy the OP for this one)
"After all aren’t people serving time for doing crimes supposed to lose the rights and privileges law-abiding folk enjoy? "
The punishment is loss of freedom, that’s what it says in the verdict. Everything else comes out of practicallity, disgust for criminals, lack of money or moves by legislators.
“For better or worse, marriage is still a sacred institution, one that certainly should not be celebrated or officiated in a penal institution”
Marriage is a sacred institution for the church. For the government and the nation it’s a judicial issue. Married people enjoy rights that non-married don’t, for instance: inheritance, being next of kin, taxation. Marriage is not a one-person thing, you need two to marry. By barring inmates from marrying you are also taking away rights from the law-abiding citizen on the outside.
"Once we allow marriages behind bars, aren’t we opening a proverbial can of worms in the can, and inviting requests to host other significant ceremonies in the slammer? "
Probably. Such as?
"Isn’t the divorce rate high enough in this country? "
What has the divorce rate got to do with it? People are divorcing because of a change of heart. It has to do with feelings. If you are ashamed that the divorce rate is too high, it doesn’t get any better by barring people that are most likely to divorce (inmates, young people, poor people, who knows) from marrying. That would be artificially altering the statistic,
“Conjugal visits should be abolished because, in prison, some inmates are “situational homosexuals.” When an inmate’s spouse or lover comes for a conjugal visit, HIV can be brought into the prison or taken out to the community beyond the prison gates.”
You are saying that some people become gay because they go to prison. I don’t buy that. Actually, in our modern world, I would bet that inmates have a lot less sex than people on the outside, wheter it’s gays or straights. So it should be less chance of getting STD from an inmate than from someone you brought home Saturday night. In addition I believe people have a responsibility to take care of themselves, also those in prison, I would guess most inmates are no more eager to get HIV than those on the outside.
"Condoms are not handed out in prison for conjugal visits. The visit is scheduled in a room or trailer and that is the only duty of the prison system. They don’t care if safe sex is performed. "
The visitor could bring condomes if he/she wishes.
"What about the children that are born because of a conjugal visit? Who is going to support that single parent? Food stamps, welfare and aid for dependant children? Is that fair to the community to have to pay for that? "
A child conceived in prison is not worth any less than a child conceived in the free world. The idea that “prison child” = “welfare child” is wrong. Welfare is something for those that cannot put food on the table for themselves or their kids. Most importantly, welfare is not something you get rich or “average” from. Maybe single parents are more likely to receive welfare than others, but you cannot bar prison sex because of that without barring student sex, etc, as well.
“Then there is the question of whether children should be separated from their incarcerated parents or exposed to prisons. The effects of such visits on the child when the visit ends, the effects on the child of seeing the often frightening physical structure of prisons, and the possible long-term effects on the child of living in a prison for short or long periods of time are all significant issues”
Cite please? I haven’t seen any study about this, but I have read stories and seen pictures about children visiting their father on death row. They didn’t look sad at all.
And you also said:
“I do not think they should be permitted cable, air conditioning, smoking privlidges, conjugal visits, time out for a funeral, special meals …I don’t think they should have rights to file frivilous lawsuits. I don’t think they should get the opportunity to get a degree from a college (unless they or their familes paid for the service)”
My opinion_
cable: pacified television zoombies are easier to handle for the guards
air conditioning: it’s not right to lock somone up in a room with freezing cold or intense heat
smoking privilidges: I agree
funeral visists: depends on the escape risk
special meals: some people need special food for religious or medical reasons
file lawsuits: if rights have been violated, a lawsuit is for some people the only way to go to correct that
About college education: You live in a country where you have to pay for college yourself. Therefore you think they get something for free that you don’t. I live in a country where the government pays for all education: high school, college, university. And with the taxes you are paying over there you should have been able to have that too.
“The current states that allow conjugal visits are: California Connecticut Mississippi New Mexico New York & Washington”
Where I live we allow the following (nationwide):
marriage
conjugal visits
education
free medical treatment
television on each cell
only one person per cell
right to vote in elections
to dine out or go to Burger King sometimes (escorted)
and other stuff
The punishment given for certain crimes are (examples):
rape: 2-3 years
robbery: 3-6 years
murder: 12-18 years
Inmates that behave get out after serving two-thirds.
Bottom line: Where I live we treat inmates like humans. By giving people the opportunity to improve their skills, we give them the opportunity to live a law-abiding tax-paying life when they have served out their sentence. Only rare exceptions and petty thieves who have chosen to pursue a career as criminals go back to prison a second time. Murderer, rapists, bank robbers etc, almost everybody becomes law-abiding tax-paying citizens when they get out. I prefer that over paying for people going in and out of prison.
For thousands of years monks, nuns, priests, Star Trek fans, and other celibates seem to have been all right.
Sex is not like crack addiction, and celibacy certainly never killed anybody. A man doesn’t become a salvering maniac simply because he can’t get any nookie from a girl for a while. There is such a thing as self-control, and many inmates display it.
We shouldn’t treat sex as a bona fide medical necesity, or think that the lack therof will somehow be a detriment to rehabilitation.
About college degrees for inmates: I support it fully. The more interest we can get an inmate to show in his future earning potential, the better.
A college diploma for a man with a felony on his record is almost essential in getting any job. Few people want to hire an ex-con. A diploma may give them an edge over other candidates, or at least even the playing field.
Anything we can do in order to see that an inmate has a good job is important. If an inmate can’t find employment, or can only get the most menial, low-paying job, a return to lucrative crime may seem very attractive. If we truly want ex-cons to become contributing members to society, we need to ensure they can get a job which pays enough to support a family.
The prison my husband works in has heat, but no air conditioning. I’m fine with that. Prison should not be a pleasant place to be. It’s not like it’s a human rights violation to be sweaty. They have access to plenty of cold water, and fans. They may be uncomfortable, but they’re not in any danger.
Besides that, many poor people don’t have air conditioning. I used to deliver Meals-On-Wheels to a nursing home apartment building. In the summer, it was like an oven. The more affluent residents had air conditioning in their apartments, but the poor made do with fans. Why should inmates get what these poor elderly folk cannot?
Most people would agree that prisoners deserve humane treatment, particularly in the area’s of self improvement. However, Prison is, by design, a restriction of freedom both to separate the individual from society and as a punishment.
I agree with that. Fans will do, unless it’s “intensive heat”. But a prison is not the same as a house or a modern office building due to the construction, they can be both hotter and cooler.
I should also mention that I don’t believe inmates should have a right to conjugal visits, I would have to say that this comes down to whether the prison staff has the time or opportunity to organize such meetings or not.
May I ask where your husband works, or what type of prison he works in?
I have never heard of an inmate on death row getting a college degree, and I have been following the dp-debate for several years now. Cite? It could be someone studying on their own. As far as I know most death row populations’ are locked down 23 hours a day.
Secondly, regarding the incidents you mentioned (law suits, vampire, extremely bad guy) I think you have to understand that the starting point is equal rights, then you strip out those without a legitimate claim afterwards. For example, the “vampire” doesn’t win the lawsuit, but he has every right to file it, and the judge has every right to throw it out. He/she shouldn’t be barred from filing the law suit at all. We cannot be selective with citizen rights in a democracy.
Originally posted by CrazyFoo
Not everyone who is incarcerated is a total write off.
The majority of incarcerated individuals will one day be released, and once again become a productive member of society.
Ok, my turn to do the “huh”
Huh?
My quote has absolutely nothing to do with “good time”
“good time” = time off for good behavior.
I don’t know the statistics for American prisons, but in Canada, there are approximately 12,000 federal offenders who are serving one of several types of sentences (federal).
These sentences can be anything from being incarcerated in a “Super-Max” or “SHU” (Special Handling Unit) for the most severe, all the way down to serving their sentence in a half-way house located in the community.
I will not include the various forms of supervised parole because these people are not incarcerated, even though they are still serving a federal sentence.
What I meant by my quote was that of these 12,000 inmates serving a federal sentence, the majority of them will in fact become productive members of society again. (eventually)
Statistics viewed from the Correctional Service of Canada Intranet site show that over 62% of all federal offenders will not return to a federal institution after their initial release. The remaining 38% is comprised of lifetime recidivists who vary from spending their entire adult lives coming and going from prison, as well as inmates who will never be released because of special designations. (Dangerous sex offenders and such)
62% of 12,000 inmates = 7,440 people who will never return to a federal prison again after being released. Hence my statement of “not everyone who is incarcerated is a total write off”
I don’t understand what your comment about time off for good behavior has to do with this??
“When someone is sentenced to prison, his punishment is to serve said sentence, he is not sent to prison to be punished.”
Ok, again I’m lost with the “huh”
Let me say this again:
When a person commits a crime, and gets sentenced to prison, this is his punishment.
The physical act of being sent to a prison and physically being separated from society is the punishment. He is not sent to prison to be punished (there I said it again)
What I mean by this is we don’t send someone to prison just so we can punish him while he is there, his punishment is being sent to prison in the first place.
Does this make sense yet? Huh?
“Ok I’ll bite, you say they shouldn’t be allowed to get married or have conjugal visits while incarcerated. Explain how us as a society will be better off by not allowing inmates to get married, or share conjugal visits.”
Ok, I will ask again: Explain how us as a society will be better off by not allowing inmates to get married, or share conjugal visits.
What does 3 meals a day and a roof over their head have to do with my question?.
Food and shelter for inmates is a basic human right, this is not a privilege that we give because we are feeling generous or charitable.
You sound like someone who thinks it’s correct to send an inmate to prison, give him daily beatings, and if you are feeling charitable, perhaps feed him and give some water…
The bottom line is the criminal justice system has flaws, any one of us could be wrongfully sent to prison, how do you want to be treated if that person is you?
"I would think the benefits of conjugal visits would outweigh the negatives. "
What does a prostitute have anything to do with a married / common law couple having a conjugal visit? This example has nothing to do with it, and now you are just typing nonsense for the sake of typing nonsense.
Sheep lovers? Hello?
How about we play a game, and it’s called “let’s stay on topic”
Ok?
As far as same sex couples, well, this will be up to the prison administration, and their decision will be based on the laws of the land at the time.
Lissa: Do you think inmates would feel equally punished if we housed them in the Ritz-Carelton simply because they’re seperated from society at large?
What I don’t get is, if it is such a damn bargain to be in prison with its cable TV, free health care, free education, free meals, and so on, why the hell isn’t everyone running there? Isabelle makes it seem like every less-than-rich college age kid should rob a bank. Either he gets money to pay for his education, or he goes to jail and gets an education.
How will we as a society benefit from someone in prison having sex or getting married? There is no proof that conjugal visits or marriage rehabilitate people. It is a privilege they simply don’t need.
