Yet another self-inflicted Rand Rover ass-kicking. It’s kind of like watching the sideshow geek; just because he enjoys biting off chicken heads makes it no less entertaining to the audience.
Smile Randi, show us those feathers in your teeth.
Actually, considering the title of this thread, what you have had smeared across your face for thirty pages now is bull-duty.
Keep licking. We’ve got plenty more.
OK, so when you say it is part of my professional responsibility, what are you saying exactly?
I understand that an actual obligation and a moral obligation are different concepts. Professional responsibility is a concept that spans both–some parts of one’s professional responsibility are laid out in rules while others aren’t. The rules clearly don’t require pro bono. So, by you saying that doing pro bono is part of professional responsibility, you are only saying that I have a moral obligation to do pro bono. As I’ve repeatedly said throughout this thread, you can say that if you want to, but it has no real-word impact on anything.
The rules do not provide a penalty for failing to perform pro bono, however, in light of the preamble, that lack of a formal requirement and formal penalty does not absolve one from meeting one’s responsibility to perform pro bono. You are confusing obligation with responsibility.
Several things come to mind, the least of which is a Formal Letter advising you that you are required to at least try and do Pro Bono, and if that’s not feasible to make a donation to one of the following from a list of approved charitable organisations. It’s only likely to get worse from there.
There’s a difference between “Not doing Pro Bono because: I’m so busy dealing with our client workload; but I’ve donated to the Indigent Legal Defence Fund instead” and “Not doing Pro Bono because: Fuck you, Peasants!”
I love how you guys say I’m the one not using words correctly and making up my own meanings of words. SFG says that I don’t have a requirement to do pro bono, but I do have an obligation. You say I don’t have an obligation, but I do have a responsibility.
I’ve been cutting through all those words to get to the actual concepts. Throughout I’ve used the following two terms: (i) actual obligation, by which I mean an action that, were I to not perform it, someone would have recourse against me based on that nonperformance (either because a set of rules provides consequences for not engaging in that action or I promised to engage in it so could be held liable for breach of that promise), and (ii) moral obligation, by which I mean an action that someone else thinks I should do even though they would have no recourse against me if I don’t do it.
Muffin, you seem to be saying that doing pro bono is a moral obligation.
What’s your support for that proposition?
Human nature and realpolitik, basically. What’s your support for the proposition that it won’t?
I haven’t asserted a proposition, so I have nothing to support. I can just sit back and point out that you haven’t adequately supported your proposition. The reason you haven’t supported it is that the rules don’t require pro bono, so it is absurd to think that the bar association would do anything about a lawyer who informs them that they don’t do pro bono.
Does the firm have an up or out policy? Have you (or your dad, whichever) passed a partnership review yet? If not, then do you really think a refusal to follow the firm’s decisionmakers’ clearly stated expectation of its candidate members will go unnoticed? Or do you expect them to be impressed by the keenness of a legal mind that thinks it can find a different true meaning? If so, good luck with that. :rolleyes:
You say you would prefer to be told directly to do pro bono, by either the bar or the firm. You fail to recognize, though, that you HAVE been told that, and in phrasing whose politeness you mistake for nondirectness.
Nope. Another massive fail from EL, to no one’s surprise.
Here’s a hypo: Let’s say the shift manager at the fast food restaurant where you work told you that the restaurant had a goal of everyone spending 20 hours a year protesting legal abortion in front of an abortion clinic. Would you simply go get your protest time in and not say or think anything about it? If they just made it a requirement of working there, then you could make your decision about whether you wanted to work there or not. Instead of doing that, they use bullshit moral suasion techniques.
Nope. You mistake the politeness of the phrasing for nondirectness. As already said.
Do you have alternative career plans? Are you ready to implement them?
Wow, score one for EL. I mean, you are really scaring me here. I never realized before that this issue could cause the firm to boot me out, in which case my family and I could become homeless and destitute. You’ve really opened my eyes, man. If you need me, I will be spending the rest of the day huddled in the corner crying.
If you’re so confident about not being booted out, why not show the senior partner this thread? You’ll only get a warm bath of love from him, right?
As opposed to the warm bath of feces you’re getting from everyone here.
And the bar association, too. No doubt they’ll all be glad to learn that the definitions of “obligation” and “responsibility” imply “unless it would create even the slightest personal inconvenience”. They don’t seem to be aware of that, and no doubt would welcome having their ignorance fought. Why haven’t you done that yet?
But I’m *really *worried about that poor little toddler girl having her ex-lawyer dad pimp out her sweet little ass to support his Kristall habit …
He won’t get canned for not meeting his professional responsibility to provide pro bona services or something either similar or in lieu. Firms need technical grinders, so he’s found his niche.
Will he get anywhere with his career other than grinding out long hours for a competitive rate of pay? Doubtful, but it sounds like he is satisfied with where he is, so the question is moot.
You guys need to get out more and stop taking the internet so seriously. The idea of showing this thread to my firm or the bar association is just weird.
How about the idea of telling them the concepts and principles you have stated here, and defended so staunchly? Do you believe in them firmly enough even to say them out loud?
I’ll field this one: No.
which means that there may be actual consequences to showing them this thread.
Which of course means that RR is scared that the only people with the ability to dish out actual sanctions for his lack of responsibility, failure to meet his obligations, etc. will agree with us as to the meaning of those words.
As I said, a cowardly sociopath.