I’m not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make, since pro-lifers would just point out that sub-par conditions in abortion clinics aren’t merely “isolated incidents”, and that at the very least abortion clinics should be regulated like outpatient centers (regulations, mind you, pro-choicers almost always oppose).
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make since it has been pointed out ad nauseum that pro-choicers oppose regulations that are not tied to any evidence of increased facility or patient care safety. Regulations that have been swamping state legislation for the past couple of years have been aimed at restricting access and burdening women. These regulations are not founded in medical evidence and are opposed by practically every reputable medical association out there (AMA, ACOG, etc) but ideologically driven lobbyists somehow are granted more legislative influence - despite their lack of medical training?
Your link doesn’t work.
And whatever happened to Jennifer Morabelli? The 29 yr old kindergarten teacher
She went to have an abortion at a “licensed clinic” and well, next thing you know…
Maybe, but as is often the case they usually refuse to enforce regulations for fear of “impending a woman’s right to choose”. Taken from the Grand Jury Report:
You’re being dishonest if you’re going to sit here and assert that, as a general rule, pro-choicers support any regulations on abortion clinics. Pro-choicers will not, and do not, even support regulating abortions clinics the same as outpatient clinics. Just look at the latest “row”, and I use the term lightly, over the Virginia legislature’s decision to impose new abortion clinic regulations (including state mandated inspections).
Let’s try this again. Should work this time.
No, you are being deliberately dishonest, I said: ‘pro-choicers support regulations tied to evidence of improved facility and patient safety - approved by reputable medical associations such as the AMA, ACOG, etc, and not based on ideologically driven legislation pushed by lobbyists with no medical training.’
It is you who are saying that pro-choicers oppose any regulations on abortion clinics. Pro-choicers do not generally support facility regulations like mandating the number of parking spaces, length of grass, hospital size hallways and other ridiculous nonsense completely unrelated to facility or patient safety.
Just tie these new regulations to evidence of improved facility and patient safety. Otherwise it is obvious these ‘regulations’ are nothing more than an attempt to bankrupt clinics by forcing them to invest in expensive remodeling in order to comply.
So when will it become mandatory for a patient to look at an ultrasound of his appendix and wait 72 hours before its removal? I mean, if regulation is about safety and all…
Well, his appendix is HUMAN after all… and we all know that’s what matters.
Just because you type it doesn’t make it true.
Because they do. You’d be hard pressed to find pro-choicers supporting any regulations on abortion clinics. Hell, even a common talking point among pro-choicers today is that we still don’t need abortion clinic regulations; rather, we need to create a “culture” in which women don’t have to go to the “Gosnells” of the world (just look at this thread, for example).
Again, they don’t support any regulations at all, regardless of what they are. For argument’s sake, I’ll grant you that mandating the number of parking spaces and the length of grass are arbitrary requirements; but those aren’t the only requirements on the proverbial table. Pro-choicers frequently fight against other restrictions such as ensuring that all abortion doctors are licensed or even holding abortion clinics to the same standards as outpatient clinics. Even the size of the hallways, which you call “ridiculous”, serves a very real purpose. Again, taken from the Grand Jury Report on Gosnell:
To steal a common pro-choice slogan. You really don’t care about “women’s safety”; only that abortion remains (moderately) cheap and accessible. It’s the precise same failure which allowed Gosnell to go on with his business absolutely unimpeded. A fact I noticed you blatantly ignored.
Great! So you at least support the hallway requirement then.
(You won’t.)
The report describes the hallways at Gosnell’s clinic as “narrow” and “cramped”. More so than a conventional clinic, I have to wonder? I have to assume also that a conventional clinic would have better control over its emergency doors.
OMG, where the heck did you get this idea that pro-choice people are against safe abortions? Safe abortion is pretty much the whole point. Hell, a lot of pro-choice people are explicitly against abortion, but know that it is a reality and that it needs to be safe and regulated rather than done on the black market in back alleys.
What do you mean by a conventional clinic?
Wasn’t there a bill introduced in some state legislature last year to impose restrictions on viagra similiar to abortion in order to “protect men”; like mandatory cardiac stress tests, invasive exams to verify impotence, and making men watch videos of priapisms being treated?
Abortion clinics that perform first trimester abortions are typically regulated by the same standards applied to medical facilities where patients receive oral or plastic surgery - not hospitals. Requiring abortion facilities that perform first trimester abortions to adhere to the same facility design regulations of newly built hospitals while not requiring the same regulations of clinics that perform procedures of the same degree of complexity and invasiveness are generally viewed as TRAP (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers) laws.
Well, I meant one that generally conforms to standard medical regulations about, y’know, not killing newborns and such. I’m sure better descriptors exist, but in any event it looks like Gosnell’s clinic had multiple problems other than how wide its hallways were, so using it as an example of what other clinics must do is problematic, at best. It’s kind of like saying “the murderer drove a car, so to prevent murders we should increase the regulation on who can drive cars.”
At the very least, some information on Gosnell’s specific circumstances would help. Were the hallways of his clinic narrower and/or have more tight corners than typical hallways in other clinics? Were Gosnell’s hallways cluttered, disorganized?
Even then, would wider hallways have helped Karnamaya Mongar? The Grand Jury described her survival chances as “slim”. Maybe even instant transport (once Gosnell finally got around to calling for it) wouldn’t have mattered.
Gosnell’s a fuckup, I trust we can agree, who should be delicensed and convicted. Using him as a club to drive other abortion providers out of business is not a rational response, though.
Im not sure what he meant by it but I have seen those around, they have a sign that says ‘Conventional Clinic’ and wondered what they were
I know one thing, I would be concerned about going into an ‘unconventional clinic’ :eek:
Fine, instead of “conventional”, I should have said “typical”.
Typical? Well again, I sure wouldnt feel good going into an ‘atypical clinic’
If someone was injured or died at a typical clinic, I suppose some people would say “that was soooo fucken typical of them”
Stadium seating, tour bus parking, catered box lunches. Of course, no one who’s anyone goes to the annual Convention of the Brotherhood of Abortion Patients anymore. They’re all at Abortapalooza.