Dr. Kenneth Gosnell's "abortion mill" and crimes

Great Debates
1

So this seems a clear-cut case to a pro-choice guy like me:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOM8K2HklZK17c0mbflBO7Th7Pzg?docId=97816a13b1b443f48dade38143b9013

Not only was the guy not licensed properly, but seems to have been a quack of many facets, including letting a 15 year old handle anesthesia, several botched abortions that lead to sterilization, injury, or (on one occasion) death, in addition to inducingthe premature birth of seven late term babies and then killing them.

It seems clear cut- murders + a bunch of medical malpractice (or whatever the word is).

But then PZ Myers (well known scientist, blogger, and atheist), whom I like a lot, argues that while Dr. Gosnell is a quack and should be prosecuted, he doesn’t think he committed murder. (see http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/01/this_is_not_a_case_about_abort.php)

I don’t get it. How is this not murder? Put aside any discussion of the abortions, but the article states that the killings took place AFTER the abortions. If so, is there any way that it’s NOT murder?

2

Meyers is a smart guy, I agree, but afflicted with a tendency to express opinions without thinking them through. It is difficult for me to understand how forcing the live delivery of a viable eight month-old fetus, and then killing it “by cutting into the back of the neck with scissors and severing their spinal cord”, is not infanticide. (On Meyers’s point about whether the mothers would be culpable, it appears that Gosnell at sometimes lied to mothers about how far along in the pregnancy they were.)

Maybe someone thinks infanticide in that kind of situation is acceptable. (I don’t.) But that this is an instance of infanticide seems indisputable.

3

Maybe they shouldn’t have had sex.

4

Who, Meyers and Gosnell? Well, they’re consenting adults, that’s up to them.

But, seriously, your comment is entirely irrelevant as to the distinction between abortion and murder in the context of Gosnell’s actions. So, uh, do you have anything else to say?

5

Maybe Jeezus shouldn’t have encoded the desire to breed into their DNA.

As per Poe’s law, I can’t tell if you honestly mean the above or are just taking the piss. Care to elaborate?

6

Oh it was just a argument from a previous thread about abortion. I found it ironic that it fit here.

7

But it doesn’t fit in here. It’s a non sequiter.

8

My first thought was “Funny this is exactly what my (public) high school health teacher was convinced all abortion clinic were like”. He even brought in a guest speaker who claimed she used to work in such a place. Only the babies were drowned instead of being stabbed to death.

9

My first thought on reading the article was that some anti-abortion groups and media will portray this story in exactly this way. Whenever abortion is mentioned they will point to this doctor as an example of an abortionist, without bothering to point out that he was unlicensed, acting illegally, charged with crimes, and in no way representative of other doctors who perform abortions.

As for the OP, I agree that this doctor absolutely committed murder and should be punished for it.

10

Of course it’s murder.

The purpose of the abortions mentioned is not to spare the mothers the medical risk of delivery. If that were the case, killing the child afterwards would be unnecessary.

Late-term abortions are not always done to protect the health of the mother, unless you twist the definition of “health” into a pretzel.

Regards,
Shodan