Your expertise in obstetrics aside, an eight or nine month baby, is not a preemie.
And suddenly, surgery becomes risky in your opinion, but if done over the course of three days, its not?
So, in your world, no doctors anywhere are personally unwilling. All doctors everywhere, are mere puppets, incapable of independent thinking and their own beliefs?
And I would also say, that, if you feel no doctor in the J.S. who performs abortions is capable of independent thought, if you stand by your belief that every abortion doctor who does NOT perform late term abortions, then would you even trust all those doctors in the first place with providing any medical care? I sure as hell wouldnt feel safe entrusting my body to a doctor who is merely a puppet and cannot or wil not think independently and make sound decisions based on their expertise.
Funny out of all the abortion doctors in the US there are only a small handful willing to do these. So according to your theory less than 1 percent of doctors who do abortions are competent to begin with?
Sure. Animals are protected by law. Is that what you mean? And yet their protections do not supercede the bodily autonomy of persons protected by law.
Why the scare quotes around the word ‘violated’? What would you call having your bodily autonomy forcibly breached?
I would argue that life, in the strictest sense, already exists and your “potential life” exists on a spectrum. So, “potential life” is not a defining characteristic that makes a fetus any different than an unfertilized egg or sperm except how far along on the spectrum it is. However, it’s not far enough on the spectrum for someone who thinks it judicious to preempt the bodily autonomy of another to call it anything more than “potential life.” The reality is that a fetus has little to no potential life without the willing physical support of the owner of the womb in which it resides. The owner of that womb, who for no other reason than the fact that she can host a fetus, is deemed submissive of the innate right to bodily autonomy to the extent that her medical status is not even a concern. To be clear, adaher is advocating putting pregnant women at great risk for serious and potential lifelong injury to extract a fetus that may or may not survive. Viable is not synonymous with biologically independent.
Yep, makes perfect sense. Nobody can understand what a given situation really is like the person who goes theough it. Doctors even the majority who dont perform late term abortions are very acquainted and aware with the truth of what they are.The general public has scant information and often are very misinformed about what an actual late term abortion entails. Its an abstract thing that happens to other people and frankly and not sjrprisingly they really do not want to know the facts of what it is.
Doctors know what they really are about, and so not surprisingly they dont do them.
There’s nothing tangential about it at all. The anti-abortion movement is about the desire to hurt and oppress women and that’s all. It’s a hate movement, and no better than the KKK or neo-Nazis. They have no concern whatsoever for the “unborn”, save as a weapon they can use against women.
Very few doctors are woman-haters. Most of them however are no braver than anyone else, and have families they care about, and will therefore back down before the mob of murderous fanatics which the anti-abortion movement is composed of.
Der Trihs,
You just did it again, your like the superman (or woman) of tangential thought …
You drew a line at the definition of “person” as being the point where your rights matter. I simply pointed out that that isn’t true in all cases.
Sorry if the quotation marks threw you off. I thought when I agreed to you that it was a violation of bodily integrity, it would be understood that I agreed it was a violation of bodily integrity.
Of course.
And that’s our point of difference. I think it is far enough along the spectrum to be deserving of protection.
I disagree with legislation that does not consider a woman’s medical status (i/e life/health of the mother) as relevant to these determinations.
I am not adaher. We could spend pages getting into the spectrum of how much risk of how much injury to a woman is enough to trump the rights of the __________ (use whatever term you like since potential life doesn’t seem to cut it for you). I don’t think not allowing an abortion, in most cases, carries a large enough risk to the health of the mother to override a late term abortion, but that certainly can be the case.
Conflating philosophy with science. Fun.
What’s wrong with the word “fetus”?
Works for me.
you mean, a standard csection performed in a hospital? Or, they can go have a four day late term procedure like Jennifer Morabelli did, by one of the few late term providers in the country. That certainly went well. Four days of agony, then afterwards he sent her back to her motel room, giving her a number to call in case of emergency. But, he hopped on a plane, and when she indeed had an emergency and her family tried to reach him he was not available. They wasted time in trying to reach him as she was directed by him to do, and then went to an ER. The er was not able to reach the abortion doctor either, and they had to work blindly without his input from his medical notes. She died. Yes, that went well…
And even aside from that point, what it basically amounts to is, “they should have been covering this story - and by the way, this IS our coverage of it.”
Bricker, what sense does it make to criticize someone else of having not yet done something you’re only doing right at that very moment?
Oh, Pennsylvania! Yeah.
When we treat abortion as a legal but shameful act, as barely tolerated sin, and decide to just let it happen, and wash our hands of it–we get this sort of thing: women dying in legal death mills.
We need to consciously treat it as a dangerous medical procedure, as surgery, and regulate it as such. That doesn’t mean we ban elective abortion; it does mean we regulate those who provide this service.
Notwithstanding your obvious swipe at me for citing facts of which I would argue most women who have had children are aware, what do you think preterm means? It is an actual medical term that is defined by the World Health Organizationas childbirth occurring at less than 37 completed weeks (or 259 days) of gestation. Adaher keeps talking about viability and claims that at that moment the fetus achieves viability, it is biologically independent. Viability ranges anywhere from 23 to 27 weeks depending on how you like your odds and there is no hard and fast number that applies equally across the board, but is specifically dependent on variable factors, other than gestational age.
So, we’re talking about late-term (post 20 wks), but preterm (pre 37 weeks) within a window of viability (post 23 weeks). On the conservative side (27 weeks), you’re looking at a minimum of 10 weeks (or 25% of a full pregnancy term) in which a fetus may be called late-term, viable, and preterm. That clear things up for you?
Suddenly? No, childbirth has always been risky and, even today, is considerably riskier than abortion, by a factor of 14. And that’s just mortality rate; it’s even riskier when you factor in permanent or chronic injury, such as never being able to safely carry a pregnancy or have a normal, vaginal birth. Granted, and I never claimed otherwise, the later in the pregnancy, the riskier it gets. However, consider that a preterm fetus would generally be delivered by cesarean section, not vaginally, and the health risks to the woman (and the neonate) are notably greater. Mortality rates, both maternal and neonatal, increase as well.
No mention of the dead babies? How about: “when we treat late term abortions as simple medical procedures, as only affecting women, and decide to just let it happen and wash our hands of it – we get this sort of thing: seven dead babies in death mills.” I don’t think this kind of rhetoric is very helpful.
You mean as safe as Jennifer Morabelli?
I just found a real gem, researching more on late term abortion, and came across this so called doctor who will perform a late term abortion at a secret location after you make a complete deposit in his bank account. From reading it sounds like you will not be able to even meet the doctor to ascertain if you want to hire him, until AFTER you make a large electronic bank deposit,
What kind of legitimate doctor operates this way?
Nigerian prince doctors.
Really? Who runs Pennsylvania politics again?