By “high-risk” I mean, “I have to worry constantly about tricky-track moderation and self-censor in order to avoid problems.” So I have been a fairly mild, non-controversial poster for the past 15 years.
I don’t think much here can be described as “cool.” I am curious, however, what bad things the poster thinks might happen due to the Pit. Some type of lawsuit or something?
Luckily, we have a solution for this:
Start a Pit thread.
Hard disagree on that.
I can imagine how that might have gone. But I’m not sure that loosening the rules of discourse in other forums solves your issue, here. If we let you be a dick to JohnT, then we have to let him be a dick back to you, and we have to let anyone else be a dick to either of you, and pretty soon, MPSIMS is just like the Pit, which you hate, so I guess you don’t post in MPSIMS anymore, either?
This doesn’t seem like a winning proposition for anyone.
I find that The Pit is an excellent place to test this sort of self image.
I’m guessing that is the assumption, in which case, look at the rest of the internet. The Pit is pretty tame in comparison to a lot of sites. The Pit isn’t a free-for-all, it’s just free of many of the rules of the rest of the board. But there are still things you can’t do there, like threaten bodily harm or be a bigot, which is not only okay on other sites but the purpose of them.
The idea that “the board will get in trouble for it” is extreme pearl clutching.
I can be repetitive too: it’s not a good solution.
Yeah. And it’s not just about me. I’d say that 75% of the stuff that ends up being the target of moderation here really shouldn’t be.
It all comes down to where one draws the line. I think maybe 25% of the stuff that draws a “take it to the Pit” mod note is worthy of such a note. I’m fine with a freer, looser form of discussion than prevails here. I’ll admit also that there are pros and cons to wherever one draws the line.
OK, cool. I just did another advanced search. BBQ Pit threads with “Aeschines” in the title. I have been Pitted 3 times, the last being in 2007. Does my self-image pass the test based on this data?
I share your impression that lawsuits based on Pit content are unlikely, but I would also be curious to know what the poster meant by the comment.
It’s literally, exactly what you’re asking for.
And here you seem to be not so subtly salivating over the prospect my getting my ass handed to me in the Pit. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Hey, it’s a negative part of the culture of this board, and you were here before I was, back in the bad old days when people were constantly gunning for the banning of other posters and trying to make it happen (I am not saying you were involved in that; I am saying that you know full well the history of it).
It’s a negative and embarrassing part of this board’s culture. But here you are, a mod, saying, in effect, “I’m totally cool with how the Pit works.”
I don’t have a particularly negative image of you as a poster or even a mod, but I don’t think how you are comporting yourself as a mod in this thread is a particularly good look for the board.
And it’s what you’re asking the rest of the board to look like.
So are you conceding that the Pit is an embarrassment?
Moderator Note
Let’s give this some time to cool down. Thread will re-open tomorrow.
Edit: Thread re-opened.
OP, I think Miller brings up a very good point – if posters aren’t told to take it to the Pit (or even have a Pit to fight it out) then what?
Either you’re advocating that the posters can be assholes to each other in any forum, or they have to dial it down and have no place to fight it out. So, all the forums can become like the Pit or there is no Pit and your complaint about having to be a milquetoast poster gets worse.
What is the solution you’re actually hoping for?
My opinion: I love that this board is pretty tightly moderated and you can have civil conversations about pretty controversial topics. We don’t need this place to become another Youtube comments section, with assholes and trolls sniping at each other. Given that tight moderation, the Pit is a great outlet. When I’m arguing with someone who, IMO, isn’t arguing back in good faith, I’ll disengage in GD (because what’s the point) and call them out for their disingenuous behavior in the Pit. Easy-peasy, avoid the warnings.
I fail to see how maintaining control of oneself is a negative.
I used to moderate a message board that allowed “mild insults”, and had no place where you could really lash out at another poster. No pit, and you could “just handle things yourself”, without taking it to the mods.
This is much better, IMHO. We had fights all the time. “I need to defend myself” was the common explanation for asshattery. And of course posters ganged up on each other. Sadly, that’s human nature. All over the place. The political forum was especially ugly.
(It didn’t help that the administrator was kinda racist and definitely, um, old fashioned, and wouldn’t let the mods clamp down on a lot of the bigotry that @Miller keeps out of the pit.)
I had been introduced to this place, and suggested trying a “pit” forum there, but no one likes the idea. The posters wanted to keep insulting each other and picking fights, and the mods were afraid that a pit would become a cesspool.
Ironically, that forum got shut down by its corporate sponsor because so much of it DID become a cesspool. One of the principals took a look at the political forum and thought it was bad for her brand. Which, quite honestly, it was. We had neonazis making “scientific racism” arguments, and gangs “fighting back” against them. Plus petty fights between posters who just didn’t like each other that sprouted up all over the board. No, you couldn’t say “fuck you”, but the feeling was there.
@Aeschines , the poster who made a fuss in that thread got moderated for it, and that little diversion was ended. If “dealing with it yourself” were allowed, the two of you would still be going at it, with others chiming in, and the topic would have been totally lost by now.
I often think the moderation of this place is overly strict (i don’t make the rules. At most i lobby for changes) but i think you are totally and completely wrong on this one.
I agree with this.
I agree with this much.
I also see @Aeschines point that SDMB has a hefty excluded middle between needing all posters to be anodyne polite OR to engage in an uncontrolled mud-rasslin against a pile-on of our collective detractors and professional malcontents. With nothing much in between.
The problem of course is that installing some middle ground is hard. Our bright lines here are already pretty damned gray. Introducing a new middle ground forum “I think you’re being disingenuous, Sir / Madam”. just invites us having two gray lines along the same spectrum to be rules-lawyered by the usual suspects.
I’m coming up on 20 years here. Not a 99er, but close.
There was a time when SDMB posts contained more snark. Most people understood the difference between “good clean fun”, “differences of style of argument”, and “lies and malice”.
In the name of making a safe space, we’ve lost a lot of that. Some of what we lost is genuinely good riddance to toxic hostility. We also threw out a bunch of entertaining baby with that toxic bathwater. Remembering that getting (and giving) “entertainment” is why we’re all here.
As the larger world has gotten more professionally hostile and in-your-face, this place has become a counter-culture bastion of civility. I like civility. I also like some spice in my mental food but also without wanting everything loaded with the equivalent of ghost peppers.
I’m not sure I have an actionable conclusion. I do think the mods do a good job with the tight rules they’ve got. I sometimes think the fear of anarchy has created a stifling blandness.
Here’s a completely different thought. Our OP, @Aeschines says he’s not looked at the Pit in years. He might find that the vitriol there now is not what he remembers from that much looser era back in 2010 or whenever. Perhaps one can now have a pointed, slightly heated discussion there that does not necessarily turn into a profanity-laced pile-on. It’s worth a try.
Maybe realise this board isn’t grade school, and hitting the report post button is not a snitching-to-teacher type of situation, but instead is just responsible citizenship.
Yes, i meant to suggest that, too. I wasn’t here in the old days, and don’t know what the pit was then, but there’s actually quite a lot of civil discussion in it now. Yes, some “you are an asshole” posts. But also a lot of straightforward discussion of potentially fraught topics.