Great point. Fascinating.
Median versus mean.
They’re different things. Are you using the wrong word, or citing the wrong data point, to support what you want to say?
Or do you believe the median is a data point anyone would ever care about?
Not trying to straw man you. What’s the deal, here?
Also something like $800B in oil funds.
Free speech doesn’t mean what you think it does. Also, you are wrong, but that hardly needs to be pointed out.
Regards,
Shodan
I think most of the relevant responses to this thread so far supported my position, and the opposition has been downright retarded in almost every instance. Still waiting for a realistic and rational response, for the most part.
A couple of people have offered thoughtful and constructive things. Not saying they have to be devoid of pit-content like vulgarity or insults to be counted as part of this. Fuck no, look at my posts.
Those who have offered anything of value to this discussion when challenging the idea that the minimum wage must increase, or isn’t the ideal solution, favor things like unions, or a guaranteed living expense provided by the government whether you work or not.
The only argument/rebuttal from those not in favor of such ideas are as follows, correct me if I’ve missed anything:
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Tough shit / I don’t care - totally a valid response, btw. I can lead a dumbass to the facts, can’t make them care.
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They’re all worthless morons, they don’t deserve pay indexed to the cost of living. - I appreciate this point of view. Please chew on broken glass, you’re a valued contributor to the marketplace of ideas
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Work harder - They’re already working hard. In fact, people are working 50 and 60 hours a week for no overtime pay because they’re holding down two jobs. Suck my balls.
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Ask for a raise - the answer is no. So now, I’m going this route, let’s raise the minimum wage. Your rebuttal? That’s right, you don’t have one.
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They can’t afford to give you one - strange, they could afford to pay you more (adjusted for inflation) in the past with less automation, productivity, and worker efficiency. And I’ve already shown you a way to afford it- raise the price of the product or service, so it doesn’t cost the business itself a dime, which is what they do every single time the wage increases. Rebuttal? None.
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The invisible hand of the market will take care of this, via magic / the invisible hand of the market jacks me off every night. Okay, clap your hands and believe in supply-side faeries and trickle down faerie dust, the rest of us have bills to pay and a solution that works. Now we have to implement it, and assholes like you are preventing us from doing so by voting in supply side retards who have been proven time and time again to be WRONG. Use the Norwegian or Australian model. Why not? What’s your actual fucking rebuttal? None.
LMK if I missed any of your brilliancies. I’ve expended very little energy or thought in batting down the mosquito-like “thoughts” I’ve seen thus far from most of you. Make me work for it.
That’s right, the United States has no profitable industries. I forgot. :smack:
Or what was your point, exactly? Spell it out for me like I’m five.
Norway is using its natural resources. We have oil, gas, trees, minerals, you name it. We have Hollywood. Our culture is exported all over the world. We make software. The USA produces nothing, huh? We can’t compete with Norway with our insanely wealthy nation, all its resources and technology?
Employers can lower your **hours **at will, to the point where you don’t really have a job anymore. That’s how Pizza Hut restricts employee rights until they can and will find an excuse to fire you, by creating bullshit disciplinary paper trails.
Employees can fight back by hiring lawyers with all the money they have to afford to pay them.
And even then, these industries lose, a lot, and are found to be violating minimum wage laws, overtime laws, and unlawfully terminating people, in addition to WAGE THEFT.
They beat their asses in court over and over and over. But it’s still more profitable for these industries to continue their wantonly illegal practices, and it’s widespread as hell, if you bothered to google it for five seconds.
Since it’s more profitable for them to break the law, and employees can’t fight back all the time, because they lack the time and money to take them to court, or don’t know their rights, they continue getting screwed.
Something you should take the time to care about and understand. If you had the capacity to care. Do you?
I can link a bunch of things for you to argue against, too. Why don’t you step up and do some of the argument yourself, in your own words? I have done so, but you’re hiding behind faulty premises that everything is equitable as it stands and citing a law that is broken all the time, and the unemployed and the low wage earner cannot fight that battle every time it needs to be fought. Sometimes, there’s someone at home who needs to be cared for and fed, and only finding another job feeds them.
I’m disagreeing with at least the highlighted part. That is not so, in my understanding, and when I research it. A lot of folks of my generation and the next are not part of a “household”, they’re single people working for a living and sharing an apartment with like individuals to be able to afford the rent. I’m not saying that they’re the majority, but I also don’t think that most of the people who earn MW or close to it are fortunate enough to be part of a middle class household.
Can I have a cite on this one, please?
Even if this somehow were the case, what about the people who it didn’t apply to? I think they matter and I think you think they matter. If it’s wrong, I’d like for us both to know, and even if it were not wrong, I think it misses a point.
This sentence is two thoughts spliced together due to typing it too fast. It should read:
Using it as a cudgel to prevent workers from keeping their wages up is a red herring, and wages should indexed to the prices of the things they actually use (rent, healthcare, education, insurance, food, fuel, utilities…) and I’ve proven it can be done.
For clarity sake.
You underestimate yourself - six, at least.
You are absolutely right - we should emulate Norway and eliminate the federal minimum wage.
OK - you are an obsessive looney without a scrap of understanding of how businesses are run or prices are set.
Look, I understand how frustrating it must be to be as brilliant and wonderful as you are, and still not be able to find a job that’s better than pizza delivery. But that’s not because the system is unfair. Unless it’s unfair to discriminate against obsessive nutbags with delusions of grandeur.
Regards,
Shodan
The links will answer your questions. Everyone ought to be familiar with the BLS data prior to participating in a discussion about wages. I believe you’ll find the EPI report informative and generally supportive of your positions. They’re an openly liberal organization and I have complained on this board about EPI’s methods, but more often than not they do things right.
The distributing we’re discussing are skewed such that median is typically more informative.
Bless your simple heart. It’s not society’s fault if someone over pays for a worthless degree.
Well, good for other countries. Why don’t you emigrate to them and make outstanding wages delivering pizzas?
It might be amusing to hear from oafs like Clothadan and Shohump about what they imagine the purpose of economic society to be?
Many of us libtards think the purpose of human economic society is to provide goods and services to humans. This can be done without explicit MW hikes by, for example, providing taxpayer-funded services like healthcare, childcare and housing for all citizens. I wonder what the oafs would think of that?
Especially amusing would be to hear what the oafs think about the fact that some enlightened capitalists want, for selfish reasons, the masses to enjoy a higher standard of living. Penniless people do not buy the goods and services that companies produce. When new income goes to those who are already rich, much of that spending power isn’t funneled into productive sectors, but into less productive activity, e.g. Wall Street shenanigans, forcing up the prices of modern art, imported luxuries, sex slaves, etc.
How about this: Stop your fucking whining and DO something about it! Spend less time being a Keyboard Justice Warrior and more time improving your skill set in order to be something more than a fucking pizza delivery guy!
While you are at it, why don’t you define what “living wage” means? Is that the same wage for everyone in all the country? Is it adjusted for high cost of living areas? Is it adjusted for family size? Is it tied to inflation? What is included in your “living wage” idea? Apartment? 1 bedroom, 2 bedrooms, what? Car? what kind of car? gas money? Commuter benefits? Is Internet included? How fast should the Internet connection be under a “living wage”? Gas? Electricity? How much should be spent on gas and electricity under the “living wage”? What about food? How much food should be able to be purchased in a “living wage”? Only hamburger? steak? caviar?
So easy to sit at home, tired from your 800 hours a week job delivering pizzas, taking care of your sick grandma, retarded children, and 3-legged dog in your ramshackle hut that you live in and say “WE ALL NEED A LIVING WAGE!”
So tell me, pizza boy, why the fuck would anyone listen to your silly ideas about jobs, the economy, the poor, and “living wages” when you are only a fucking PIZZA DELIVERY GUY??? I mean, really.
Yeah he did his homework and he deserves credit. Sorry for taking a shit on your OP Askthepizzaguy.
Back in the 19th century, there was a famous asylum at Bedlam, where people would go to observe the antics of the mentally and morally stunted.
Now, thru the wonders of technological advancement, we can read your posts, right in the comfort of our own homes.
Regards,
Shodan
Yes, it really is that simple. The overall inflation rate was 0.1% in 2015, which is pretty nearly negligible.
I’m not going to re-quote your entire screed, to save everyone’s eyesight.
But gasoline prices? President Obama campaigned on getting higher gasoline prices.
I’d bet you voted for him twice, if you bothered to vote at all.
So rent went up by 4.6%. It’s offset by lower prices on almost everything else.
[Moderating]
This is a violation of the board rules against wishing harm on another poster. Please avoid using language like this again.
No warning issued.
[/Moderating]
Given the issues Mr. Pizzaguy has with economics, I assumed it was an example of the “broken window” fallacy.
Regards,
Shodan
Because an argument should succeed or fail on its own merits, not who the arguer is? I mean, it’s perfectly reasonable to talk about his “silly ideas” based on their being, well, silly. But “Why the fuck should we listen to some pizza delivery guy” is a terrible standard.
Oh, do go on. Who’s worthy of your valuable time and brainpower? What other plebs should just shut the fuck up? I’m only a fucking county employee–please advise me what opinions I’m allowed to have.