Professors, post your student gripes here

The BBQ Pit
81

Wow, great topic !

I agree with many others’ pet peeves and will add a couple that don’t irritate me so much as they just confuse me.

One of the courses I teach is a lab; students do 8 labs during the semester and are supposed to turn in a lab report 2 weeks after each lab. If you don’t turn in at least 5 reports you get an F (no matter how good the remainder are). It seems that every semester at least one student does EVERY lab and turns in exactly ZERO lab reports. Ok, I can understand blowing off the class and taking your F, but why bother to show up for the lab ? It can’t possibly be THAT fascinating. The strange thing is that a) I’ll repeatedly inform the student that (s)he has to actually turn in lab reports and b) these are juniors and seniors, and the students doing this are often quite bright.

I think that some of the actual cheating doesn’t annoy me as much as that the way in which it is done suggests that a) the student thinks I am an utter friggin’ moron or b) they inhabit an alternate universe (maybe they’re from Planet Claire). Let’s see, there’s 30 students in the class…you and a buddy submit the same lab report…which I grade at the same time…yup, you’ll get caught (after all, alcohol only kills the weak brain cells).

82

No thanks. Grading intro C/C++ is a thankless job, and I’ve had enough. I’m gonna go on to lead a calculus discussion session.

[sub]Yes, I realize that’s gonna be worse.[/sub]

83

Krebnut,

Don’t get me started on ‘Education’ majors. I had to ask the division chair to stop assigning me math education majors to me as their advisor. I won’t get into it but, to generalize, it was unbelievably pathetic. Where do they get these students? I guess if you underpay a profession (1-12 grade teaching) you get the dregs of the college students going into it.

I had one advisee. She was a ‘math’ education major and fought me on EVERYTHING. She was transfering to another university in a larger town in her Junior year and I had to arm twist her into taking CalcII and CalcIII. These are not high level courses people! These are SOPHOMORE courses. She took them and I insisted on Diffy Q and Linear Algebra and she drew the line. Nope, no way. I asked why and she said she was a math EDUCATION major and didn’t need to take such ‘high’ level courses. I told her that these are not high leel and are sophomore/junior level.

We tangled for a bit and then I insisted she get her other Universities handbook thinking that will solve it.

Guess what? Not only did she not have to take these courses but she didn’t have to take a SINGLE JUNIOR OR SENIOR LEVEL MATHEMATICS COURSE!! Not ONE. It was all math history and such garbage not even taught by the math department.

I was so astonished and when I recovered I strongly insisted she get a real math major. Nope, too hard. I ‘just’ want to teach.

Unbelievable! I suggested in the next department meeting that every year, each faculty member should be allowed to ‘tag’ 3 people and, if tagged, would never be allowed to teach. Ever.

I had a ‘business education’ majoring student of mine ask me for help planning her next 3 years. Sure! We sat down and drew out a map of what she needed to take. I added one senior level class that she didn’t like and pointed it out. “Why do I need to take this class. It’s not required”. I told her that by taking that class she would get a Business major rather than a business education major.

“I don’t want to do that. I hear it’s a tough class”. I then explained that by taking that one class, she would be able to go into the private sector WITH A BUSINESS MAJOR if teaching didn’t work out. Imagine, I said, if teaching didn’t work out…wouldn’t you want to look for a biz job with a biz major rather than biz ed.

She thought and said “nope, I’m going to be a teacher”. I replied that something like half of all teachers leave the field by 5 years. Nope.

She never took that class. I wonder if she is teaching.

Another prof became seriously ill and we divied up his courses. I drew the short straw and received his “Math for elementary majors” class. Groan. Well, only 4 weeks from graduation/end of year (they were seniors).

First day (remember 4 weeks from end of class/seniors/will be teaching YOUR kids in 4 months) — I was asked a question and it went back and forth till it became obvious that a student was have problems with…

…

…
…

…

(ready?)
…

…
SUBTRACTION!

WTF? SHE COULD NOT SUBTRACT! I drew the number line and everything using the old crutch of ‘-’ means left and ‘+’ means right. No use.

3 weeks later she happily announced she had a teaching gig next year.

I hope you parents of young children sleep well tonight…

Blink

84

This thread illuminates two things for me…

  1. We don’t pay teachers anywhere NEAR enough !

  2. How could anybody who has been a student and tried to get away with any of the above crap (almost every student at one time or another) actually choose teaching as a profession ??? You are all masochists, and thank god, because the world needs you. Chin up :slight_smile:

  3. Hi, Opal!

from a very thankful student

85

Ha! If you think it’s bad teaching education majors, you should try being one. Or at least, being one with an IQ over 85. Thirty plus hours of things like:
[ul]
[li]Drunk professors. No, I mean that. Two different guys regularly came to class glassy-eyed, unable to concentrate drunk.[/li]
[li]Self-grading. One of the drunkards ended the course (where he did nothing but take roll) with a test (which the students wrote, poorly) which we swapped papers and graded. However, you could not grade the paper accuratly because he called out hte answers A-B-A-C-slur-slur-d-ImeanC-B-A. Furhtermore, since half of them were written piss-poorly by students and had ambigious answers-in my own not so humble opinion–there was no morally acceptable way to grade another’s paper. After this, we swapped back papers and filled out a “grade sheet”–we were supposed to list what we did in the course (We had a bunch of 2 page reports no one ever read), our grade on the final and the mid-term, and average it all to assign ourselves a grade. I got an A. (In my defense, I know quite abit about hte History and the philsophy of Education, from my own studies. So I felt sorta kinda justified.)[/li]
[li]Fictional syllabi. This is ubiqutious. From the syllabus of your average Education course, you’d think it was the the rigourous course on the campus. This is for the people who certify the program to read. They have no relation to the actual course. For example: in “Technology in the classroom”, (basic computing) our syllabus had us covering “Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Acess, and designing your own webpage” We actually prepared one presentation in powerpoint, which we theorectically saved as HTML.[/li]
[li]Free Grades to the Hungry. I later met a girl who was technically in the above Tech class with me. She didn’t know she aws in it because she had been wait-listed in and not notified. She got a B. In a “Music Appriciation” class given by the EDU department, I missed the final and didn’t do a paper and got an A.[/li]
[li]Cheating. The cheating just boogles the mind: It’s not just that it happens, but that there is no censure. In fact, entire departments depend upon it. At the school I am at now, you have to pass an “exit exam”–basically an overview of Ed. theory and then another section in your area. It is impossible to pass without cheating. It’s 50 years old, the questions are poorly worded (to put it mildly), and the only prepartion you’ve had are classes like the drunk men mentioned earlier. I do not fail multiple choice tests–like most Dopers, I’m a 99% type of gal. I failed the exit exam. Appalled and embarressed, I went to the review before the retake. The review consisted of my department head reading from a copy of the test, reading the 4 answers, and telling us what the correct one was. I kept thinking “What the fuck? I KNOW that is what I put!” Anyway, the next day someone shows up for the review with a “study guide” he got from a friend. Low and behold, it’s the actual damn test, of which there are a million copies floating around (50 years old, rememeber). The department head tells us to a) go make copies of in and b) she will deny all knowledge. Now, the score report from my first attempt tells me which ones I got wrong, and what answer I put down. I compare this to a copy of the test, and it turns out that many of the “right” answers that the department head gave me (she didn’t have an answer key, she was just going by the knowledge she has as a fucking Ed.D) we the ones I did put down, and were wrong. So basically, the department can’t prepare students to take an unpassable exam, so they insure that every student has a chance to cheat and then deny all responsibility.[/li][/ul]
I could just keep on going–it is almost like the system is designed to weed out intelligent, motivated people by disgusting them to the point that they give up and go into a field that allows it’s students a little self respect–like that astrology school that just opened up, maybe.

Ah well, I am doing my student teaching now, where i am actually learning something and doing things and am quite good at it, really.

86

The are two types of behavior that are typically labeled as “sucking up.” One is the sort of thing you described, Sparkleegirl–students feigning interest thinking that it will somehow magically boost their grades. I had one student who obviously had gotten quite far in life on his Latin charm and every day after class he’d stop by and tell me that he thought I was doing a great job, and he thought black holes (or whatever) were very very interesting and ask a couple of questions that I had already answered in class, all the while displaying utter fascination. These type of people, if they’re not disrupting the class, I just smile at them, and grade their homework extra hard. :wink:

The other type of people described as “sucking up” are the people who are really excited by the material. They can sometimes be disruptive by dragging class discussion off on tangents and I try to divert them into office hours. These students don’t need to suck up to impress the instructor, 'cause they’re usually aceing the class. They can be annoying, but sometimes it’s nice to feed off their enthusiasm, and some of them are nice and have interesting questions.

87

BlinkingDuck, I actually screamed when I read your post. What is it with education majors?

88

And how about those student athletes? :eek:

Yes, I know, I must not tar them all with the same brush, and I have had a few nice surprises. Even so....I cringe when I find out they're going to be my students for the next 18 weeks. Well, actually, more like a portion of that time--the portion during which they actually show up when they're not being scouted, getting ready for a game, coming back from a game, dropping by to announce that Coach wants 'em for practice and therefore they cannot attend class, going to "away games," etc.
I once had a class filled with nothing but jocks. Believe it or not, the course was specially created just for them a few weeks into in the semester. I was told I'd have 17 or 18 people, wound up with 14, and by the end of the term only 5 managed to pass. All the baseball guys had disappeared long before that time. I swore I'd never go through it again, not even for the extra money. It just ain't worth it.

And they’re all convinced that they’re going to make it into the big leagues. Every last one of them.
Just today I was subbing for a colleague and I told her later about one fellow who had walked into class 30 minutes late. She said, “Oh yeah–he’s my athlete.”
So it’s not just me…right?

Profs, would you like to share with the group?

89

Whew. Fellow TA checking in here. Ditto to what all of you said.

I TA’d an intro to animal sciences laboratory for three years, and was constantly amazed at how many idiots I had to deal with. You don’t care about the material? Fine. Seriously, that’s fine. But don’t ignore every word I say, then e-mail me the hour before the exam with questions, then on the exam tell me that a typical chicken weighs 30 lbs, then come and whine about how there’s too much material and you shouldn’t be expected to know minor details. Sweetheart, you tortured me all semester and then tried to tell me that your mom’s butterball weighs more than her australian shepherd. Don’t expect any sympathy here.

I also taught computer applications classes for a couple of summers. Oh god. Oh god. Please, people-- If you do not know how to double-click a mouse, please do not enroll in an advanced Access class and then expect me to carry your miserable carcass through the material.

Conversely, if you are a skilled programmer, do not allow your boss to enroll you in Intro to Windows, then torture me by asking questions and adding your two cents to my explanations. You confuse the people who don’t know how to double-click the mouse.

Of course, as a grad student I see the other side of things too. I’m taking a class this semester that is at a time of day where I often cannot make it to lecture. The professor gives me a hard time about it, which really pisses me off since I’ve gotten the highest score in the class on both exams. Yes, I know that it sucks when you don’t feel like a student is treating your class like a high priority, but sometimes the class just isn’t a high priority. If I have to choose between going to lecture and getting my research done, the research is going to win.

It would be different if I was constantly going to his office and asking him to spend hours helping me catch up. But I’m simply missing lecture. So back the fuck off.

90

Amen to the computer issues!

I taught a few sections of a physics lab a few years back, and part of what the students had to do was analyzing the data with Excel. I’d be sitting up at the front of the lab, waiting for questions or grading or reading a book or something, and I’d have students come up and say things like “my computer doesn’t work.”

So I’d go and take a look. “Umm… you may with to start by turning it on.” :eek: So I’d turn it on for them and the problem would be solved. And then someone else would come up and say “my computer doesn’t work.” So I’d go take a look. “Try turning on the monitor.” sigh

Amazingly, I had to deal with this just about every week, too.

I realize that UF isn’t exactly Stanford, but for the love of God, we’re supposed to have the best and the brightest students from Florida here, and they can’t figure out how to start a computer? :confused:

91

g8rguy–it’s nice that we can feel each other’s pain.

Does this sound familiar?

"Right click. No, right click. CLICK YOUR RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON. The other button. The button other than the one you have been clicking…oh god…

92

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
PE MAJORS!! AHHHHHHH!!! RUN AWAY!!!

I have had PE majors before… NOT a good class!

Scene: 2 semesters ago. I have a PE class (my first…). Attendance sheet shows 30 students, but there are only about 15 students when I go into class! What? Hmmm… all of the students who are absent have the word “exempt” in Korean next to their names… (I later lear that “exempt”= scholarship!).

Short version: in Korea, you can major in soccer! Or baseball! If you are good enough at your sport, you will receive at least a C in your English class, regardless of whether your English teacher actually ever sees you or not!

50% of my PE students got a B or C, and I NEVER EVEN MET THEM!

Repeat: I NEVER SAW THEM EVEN ONCE!!! And they got a B or C in my class! WTF? The sports dept. changes their grade to whatever they want it to be! Why bother paying me? Just give them a grade and pretend they took English!
(Disclaimer: I didn’t teach him, and don’t know who did…) Park Chan-Ho, pitcher for the LA Dodgers, attended my university… I doubt if he EVER ONCE wemt to his required English conversation class. (again, I don’t KNOW that… just guessing…)

It’s strange to me to give a student who I’ve never once seen a zero, only to check the final grades to see that student get a “C” for my class…

93

Waaah! Excel so sucks ass for data analysis! I had a professor who required us to analyze our data in Excel. Well, he didn’t actually require it, but if you had any trouble and asked him for help, he refused to look at anything but an Excel spreadsheet–not MathCad, not FORTRAN code, nothin’ but Excel. He’d just say, “MathCad is notorious for making statistical errors. Go do it in Excel and your problem will disappear.” This is bullshit, of course, because MathCad only does what you tell it to do. It’s not like it has mystical subroutines fucking with your data without your knowledge. He used a freakin’ Mac, too. Macs might be fine for poets and artists, but to use one in the physical sciences is just . . . unnatural.

Er, anyway, I guess that belongs in a different thread.

94

I TA’ed my university’s intro to writing course a few years back. Oddly enough, my experience with jocks was pretty positive–I think I wound up teaching half of the soccer team. They seemed a lot more motivated since their coach was a hard-ass about studying and grades. Overall, my experiences with them was fairly positive.

On the other hand, my eternal enmity is reserved for the Back Row Team–those kids who used to get A’s in high school and are deeply convinced of their omniscience and spend their time in the back row practicing the ancient mystic arts of navel contemplation and passive resistance…and then act shocked when they find out they actually have to work to pass the damn class.

95

C’mon, Astroboy 14, you and I both know that the hard work is finished at the end of high school when the students take the national university examinations. After that, college in Korea is a 4-year snooze (and that goes for Seoul-dae, too). “Students” spend their time dying their hair weird colors, drinking too much soju and beer in Shinchon (near Yon-dae and Hong-dae), and demonstrating against America and IMF. Serious students who genuinely have a desire to learn get student visas and head to the States.

96

(…putting on long unused college advisor cap…)

MandyJo –

Long ago I was in ‘education’ also. I even taught High School! You are sounding very much like me and I wish I would have been able to give my younget self advice so I can’t help mentioning:

  • Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, have a backup plan! Please don’t tell me that you’re majoring in education without a ‘real’ (excuse the insult to the degree but it is reality) academic major. What I mean is that if you’re majoring in ‘math education’ please have a major in math with all the extra education classes. This way, if teaching doesn’t work out, you can look for work with a math major instead of ‘math ed’(or whatever your field is). If you were a hiring manager, what would you think?

  • Please understand that your frustration with your collegues and environment WON’T GO AWAY after you graduate and (if) you find a teaching job. You will have a position where you are not treated as a professional (either at work or in the community), not paid very well, your salary will probably not even increase with time (after inflation your first year salary may be your highest - ever), you have no power over your environment and are defenseless against the winds, and almost everyone you work with and report to ARE LIKE YOUR FELLOW STUDENTS.

If you’re smart, have even a smidgeon of ambition and dislike poverty/ having to rely on a man to support you (many teachers are second income folks), you will get very frustrated with teaching. You will love ‘teaching’ but not all the crap that you need to sacrifice in order to do it.

Try teaching. I tried it. Just have a backup plan! Please.

Blink

97

Okay, agreed – no sweeping generalizations from me…

BUT…

It doesn’t change the fact that I can currently look out into the NFL and pick out several people and say “Yep, he failed my college algebra class…”

(Before my current teaching stint in computer science, I was once TA in the math department, here at FSU).

In fact, there’s one very prominent defensive player out there who was in that class, and he sat in the back during his recitation class and tried to cheat on his quizzes – off of the football player sitting next to him (who was also failing).

Go ahead. Knock yourself out, pal… :slight_smile:

Monstre

98

Oops, that was Mandy JO. Sorry

99

Blinking Duck: I have a degree in English, not sure if that qualifies as a backup plan . . .

Actually, what I would love to do is teach freshman comp. Only no one --students or administrators – takes freshman comp seriously, so it is the only type of teaching tha actually pays less than K-12. But I plan on working on the ole masters (in an academic subject, not Education) as soon as I get a job.

100

Manda Jo,

Sigh…

Another person down on their major…

Let me tell you about one of my greatest success stories as a teacher. I think it applies to you.

In the state I taught, everyone had to take College Algebra. The math faculty thought this was silly, especially me, and I pushed through a course to the state and they allowed me to teach a course that could basically be called a math class for humanities majors.

It went over great and they are still teaching it. The second time I taught it, a woman about 20 was lamenting about her major. She said “I guess I can only teach with it”. Her major was music. This sent me on a tizzy because a person should be PROUD of their major, for Pete’s sake! I then spent 15 minutes of class time ranting about what a college degree is and for people not to self limit themselves.

I was engaged to a woman before and during her starting at med school. She was frustrated that Med schools do not give more value to traditional degrees (hers was microbiology). Guess which degrees they like? Art, Music, English, Math! Of course, you still have to take the ‘pre-med classes’ but they really give much higher consideration to these ‘exotic’ degrees.

I had some lawyer friends talk to me about Law school. I didn’t think I qualified but they put me in touch with someone teaching at a prestigious law school and he told me the same thing. They LOVE math, art, music and other atypical degrees. Of course you still have to do well on the LSAT (?) but you are given higher consideration.

Also, a college degree is just a hunting license. It allows you to hunt. Once you get in, it’s all up to you. Do well and you will rise. Do you know who my best hire was (for a quasi stat/technical position)? An ANTHROPOLOGY major! Actually I hired another after him and he worked out fine also. They didn’t start out at the higher position but once they were in I saw that they had the interest and the brains to do it.

An English/communications major started at my present company as an assistant report writer. 2 years later he is THE DATABASE ANALYST! He had no tech background but the database person quit and he jumped all over it. It took them time to find a replacement but by then he was doing all the work. He’s good and who cares what his major is.

Be proud of your major. Don’t self limit yourself as to what your major qualifies you to do.

I preach too much…sorry,

Blink