Pronounciations that grate: Is it because I'm old?

[choie]

@terentii

Quite true. But if you change the spelling, you change the pronunciation. That a word is commonly misused is often offered as justification for mangling the language.

Granted, the word is not widely used nowadays (I suspect it was considered literary even by the 1860s). But Lincoln did not say “I am loath (rhymes with “oath”) to close,” but “I am loth (rhymes with “sloth”) to close.”

In “Trial by Jury,” the 1875 Gilbert and Sullivan operetta, “Loth/Loath” is indeed intended to be rhymed with “both.” In this couplet, Edwin, the defendant in a breach of promise (i.e. he broke off his engagement and his former bride-to-be has sued him), sings first, then is followed by the opposing lawyer:

EDWIN:
“If I to wed the girl am loth,
a breach it would surely be;”

PLAINTIFF ATTORNEY:
“But if he goes and marries both,
it counts as bur-glaree”

(The lawyer is obviously an idiot, mixing up bigamy and burglary, but still, it’s the rhyme that matters.)

[SciFiSam]

@Biggirl

And finally I realized that it must be me getting old and cantankerous because yesterday Destiny’s Child’s Irreplaceable played on the radio and all I heard the whole time was Beyonce and her inability to say the word correctly. She pronounced it 'irreplaceaboo" throughout the entire song and it drove me crazy.

So I ask: what’s with the weird pronouncations all of a sudden?

I’d always actually thought she was British, for some reason. A Wiki scan doesn’t say that she even spent any significant time in the UK. But in the South-East of England, which has more people than than the rest of the UK (plus a few million), ‘irreplaceaboo’ would be the usual pronunciation.

[WOOKINPANUB]

@Bryan_Ekers

I believe the polite term is “numptons”, though their popular musicans and playwrights sometimes use “numpties” in an effort to reclaim the word.

I’m 99% sure this is a joke, but am I unwittingly using some kind of racial slur? I walked around using the term “Paki” for quite some time until someone on this very board explained that it’s a derogatory term. Stupid limey social circle…

[Bozuit]

@Biggirl

This is why I don’t narrate nature docs-- because of my accent and because no one has asked.

I love this.

@needscoffee

Ne-go-see-ate is the British pronunciation

No it’s not.

@needscoffee

Or shedule instead of schedule.

“Skedule” sounds pretty horrible to me.

@WOOKINPANUB

People that say “liberry” for library

What about tomorree?

@SciFiSam

I’d always actually thought she was British, for some reason. A Wiki scan doesn’t say that she even spent any significant time in the UK. But in the South-East of England, which has more people than than the rest of the UK (plus a few million), ‘irreplaceaboo’ would be the usual pronunciation.

Not in my South East England. I think I get what you mean - with a nasty “w” at the end. But it’s not close to “the usual”.

[BigT]

Singers don’t like final Ls or Rs. The -able in most words is usually pronounced as either uhl or ool, where uh is the sound of the u in cup and oo the sound of oo in book. Dropping the L, combined with the normal widening of sung vowels* makes irreplaceaboo a perfectly understandable pronunciations.

*Singing depends a lot on having a lot of space to resonate, and thus smaller vowels are usually more open. We are so used to this that something that technically sounds like the oo in book can just as easily come off as the oo in boot. Especially at the end of words in an unstressed syllable, where pronunciation is so imprecise.

[Bosstone]

@terentii

Two I particularly hate are “calvary” when someone means “cavalry” (the first is where Jesus was crucified, the second is Custer’s branch of the Army), and “short- (or long-) lived,” with a short, not long, “i.”

You are short- or long-lived if your life is short or long, not your “liv” (if you even have one, which I doubt you do).

This is something I don’t think I can ever personally accept. It’s been a short i for my entire life, and I’ve only recently heard people use the long i. It’s jarring and just sounds wrong, even though I accept that it may technically be right.

It’s just a natural progression. How often do you hear “Long live the King!” in movies and TV? It’s a very short step from “Long live the King” to “The King is long-lived.”

[BetsQ]

I’m not on board with a long I in long-lived. I think of that phrase as saying that something/one has lived a long time, not that they have had a long life. Yes, I realize that means the same thing, but the “live” in long-lived is definitely a verb in my mind.

[Inner_Stickler]

The idea of the i in long-lived being an aɪ̯ sound is so obviously wrong to me, I’m astounded. People say it that way?

[Acsenray]

If you have a long life, you’re long-lived. It’s not the verb “to live.”

Just like “long-armed.” It’s a reference to your having an arm (noun) that’s long, not a reference to the verb “to arm” meaning “to bear deadly weapons.”

[Leaffan]

The lava pronunciation is standard English-Canadian. We say pasta and Mazda the same way. (The “a” sound in both syllables is the same, as in Santa.)

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

@Biggirl

She pronounced it 'irreplaceaboo" throughout the entire song and it drove me crazy.

Here’s a close approximation of the “-ble”/“boo” substitution from a young child, courtesy of Wheezer Hutchins’ little brother Dickie from “Our Gang.”

[Onomatopoeia]

Ah, yet another of these threads. Okay, I’ll play.

In response to the OP, pronouncing ‘boo’ for words that end in ‘ble’ is a somewhat common African American speech inflection, especially in lower-educated populations. Responsible is pronounced responsiboo. Table is pronounced tayboo. Possible is pronounced possiboo, etc… It’s actually so common that I’m surprised no one in this thread has mentioned it before now. It is not just a singer thing, or even a Beyonce thing.

[Onomatopoeia]

Missed the edit window.

This speech inflection also carries through to words that end in ‘ple’. For example, apple is pronounced appoo, staple is pronounced staypoo, principle is pronounced principoo, etc…, and even ‘-cle’ and ‘-cal’, e.g., particoo, practicoo, etc…

[kaylasdad99]

@Biggirl

Ah, but Beyonce is a grown woman. And to think, it used to be to me that the worst part of that song was how she rhymed “in a minute” with “in a minute”.

No, the worst part is that she’s telling a lying philanderer to getthefuckout because she’s got a brand new lying philanderer on the way over even as they speak.

[EllisDee]

@Acsenray

If you have a long life, you’re long-lived. It’s not the verb “to live.”

Just like “long-armed.” It’s a reference to your having an arm (noun) that’s long, not a reference to the verb “to arm” meaning “to bear deadly weapons.”

This is uncompelling because “live” isn’t a noun. If I were to buy into your logic, I’d scold people that the correct term is actually “long-lifed.”

Also, the “long-” phrasing does precede verb forms as well, as in long-awaited.

[Acsenray]

@EllisDee

This is uncompelling because “live” isn’t a noun. If I were to buy into your logic, I’d scold people that the correct term is actually “long-lifed.”

The transformation of [f] to [v] before a voiced suffix is natural in English. Even if you spelled it “lifed,” you’d still pronounce it as if it had been spelled “lived.”

[Chefguy]

@kayaker

The “robits” thing is a well recognized phenomenon.

I remember seeing an old short from the 50s, where the narrator was using something like “robutts” or “robits”. It was distracting.

In most parts of the country, people call a collection of bedroom furniture a “suite”, but some pronounce it “suit”. First time I heard it, I couldn’t figure out what the woman was talking about. A bedroom suit? There’s formal clothing for the bedroom? And apparently, both versions are acceptable.

I’m more irritated by what I call the blanding of vowels. It’s a style of speaking, particularly by 20-30 somethings, wherein the vowels are flattened and all sound the same, i.e., Thaht wahs sahhh awesahm. Sort of a valley girl thing, I guess, but annoying beyahnd all raysahn. You don’t have an interesting accent, dear: you just sound stupid.

And don’t get me started on vocal fry. It’s maddening.

[SciFiSam]

@Bozuit

I love this.
Not in my South East England. I think I get what you mean - with a nasty “w” at the end. But it’s not close to “the usual”.

OK then, it’s the usual pronunciation among working-class people in SE England. It’s not RP, no.

@Acsenray

The transformation of [f] to [v] before a voiced suffix is natural in English. Even if you spelled it “lifed,” you’d still pronounce it as if it had been spelled “lived.”

Um, are there any other words where a single f is pronounced as a v?

Why are you so sure that it’s not long-lived with lived as a verb? It’s for someone who’s lived a long time. It’s a simple construction.

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

@Chefguy

I remember seeing an old short from the 50s, where the narrator was using something like “robutts” or “robits”. It was distracting.

Similary, in the “Our Gang” short “Robot Wrecks,” it was pronounced “row-boat,” like the water vehicle.

[Bosstone]

@SciFiSam

Um, are there any other words where a single f is pronounced as a v?

All I can think of is elfen/elven, but the ‘elven’ pronunciation is a construct of Tolkien’s, IIRC.