Those us living in the area haven’t seen the whole video broadcast - tell me, have you?
The girls being hazed were out-numbered 2 or 3 to one by girls who were already armed with weapons, albeit crude ones. Under such circumstances attempted flight might not be your best option.
Beyond that, I question your entire premise that if the girls did not attempt to escape or defend themselves they are somehow equally guilty as the ones perpetrating the hazing in the first place. There is no excuse - other than self-defense - for hitting someone else. It doesn’t matter if the weapon is a baseball bat, dead fish, or a live fist. Escape/no-escape, defense/no-defense of the victim is not a factor indetermining the rightness or wrongness of such an action.
The fact that there was alcohol involved, and the hazers were using weapons against unarmed hazees, are additional aggravating factors in my mind.
Yes, I think the girls doing the hazing should, indeed, serve a year in jail, plus whatever fines can be levied. This is NOT acceptable behavior, and it is not excusable.
Well that’s not my premise, but if it helps I agree that not attempting to escape or defend themselves does not make the girls equally guilty as the ones perpetrating the hazing in the first place.
So you’re basing your position on how many minutes of 30-45 minutes or so of the total video…?
How do you know that no one tried to leave?
What the news is showing is just a very few minutes of the whole show, not nearly the whole picture. In fact, there were a number of teens who did try to stop the assaults, protect some of the hazees, and try to get the victims away from the perpetrators but, of course, that doesn’t sell cornflakes as well as the more scandalous images.
This is just one more example of people making snap judgements on very little information.
The really interesting thing is that, because this is on video tape, what exactly happened and who did what is so clearly known to authorities. Which might explain why, although 32 girls were suspended (rightly or wrongly) only 15 have been charged with criminal assault and battery.
What boggles my mind is that the parents of some of these girls have been shown the whole sordid tape, watched what their little princess did, and still do not see the wrongness of beating another human being.
If you’ll notice, I’m basing my position on whatever premises we agree on.
First you said there was no obligation not to leave. Next you said leaving in those circumstances might not be one’s best option. Then you said that leaving/not leaving is not a factor. Now you posit that some may have tried to leave. Why all the angles? If you think the victims’ actions are irrelevant, why keep honing that argument? We’re not in disagreement on whether they tried to leave or not.
This incident was not some two or three minutes of activity, as one could erroneously conclude if the only input one had was the video clips on shown on TV.
The hazing occured over a period of time, involved many people, and was a complicated swirl of multiple activities
In other words, all alternatives listed - beating/not beating, leaving/not leaving, etc. - could and did occur over that period of time and amongst that group of people. So when you ask “why all the angles?” it’s because ALL the angles occurred.
And my basic argument - that you can not lay the blame on the victims - has not changed. YOU are the one maintaining that the girls who were beaten/abused were somehow responsible, somehow “deserved” it, simply because they were there.
To my mind, the argument that these victims were responsible for their victimization is the argument of bullying seeking to justify the unacceptable.
I’m not maintaining that. If I actually posted something you disagree with, why don’t you quote it and I’ll discuss it. Keep in mind that my comments prior to your arrival were based on premises offered by the person I was arguing with.
Is due process a right in high school? I mean, everyone (myself included) griped about the lack of freedom, but while a student is in school, they simply don’t have the same rights as the rest of us (free speech, for example).
What rights does a student not have in high school but does have in greater society?
aurelian Courts have consistently held that students have lesser expectation of privacy, at least on school property, which has been advanced as justification for warrantless searches of lockers or cars in student parking areas, drug tests, etc. I oppose both of these, if done without cause. But, I acknowledge that the Courts have consistently rejected my position.
I see school discipline in this instance as a matter of jurisdiction. I simply reject the idea that the school should have any authority to punish the kids for activities done off school property and away from school grounds. If any government entity wishes to pursue criminal prosecution, great. If any of the “victims” wish to pursue civil action, more power to them. (Tho I have not heard any inkling of such civil actions yet.)
I live in Illinois. Say I go to Wisconsin, and do something illegal. Speeding, maybe, or even a more serious crime. Does Illinois have any right to punish me, simply because I spend a lot of my time there? Of course not.
This morning I read in the paper that the school is offering a settlement to the students facing suspension/expulsion. The students would be allowed to graduate, tho they would be expelled and would not be allowed to attend the ceremony. In exchange, the students would agree to drop any legal action against the school, and forego any movie/book deals based on this incident.
I hope at least one student refuses this deal, and sues the shit out of the school district.