Proposal: IBM Watson in debates

The Watson AI did pretty well in Jeopardy!, it would not take much modification I’d guess, to turn the question-answering towards fact-checking politician debate statements in real time.

It may be difficult to get candidates to participate in a debate where Watson was right there to immediately correct their misstatements, maybe have to just have a station/broadcaster/streaming service or something tie Watson in to the debate remotely.

Would be hilarious and practical both, to have real time fact correction of the not quite true information spewed in those things.

No, for what it’s worth, it’s a lot harder to design a computer system that fact-checks a political debate than one that answers Jeopardy! questions. (O.K., it’s actually questioning Jeopardy! answers, but you know what I mean.) Jeopardy! clues are much more stereotyped in grammatical form than political debate statements. The databases that Watson used (things like Wikipedia) are much more stereotyped in form than any database that would help answer questions about political databases. And there’s the problem that in some significant proportion of the answers that Watson came up with (I’m not sure what proportion, but let’s say 10%), the answer of Watson’s seemed like nonsense to the average person. 10% wasn’t enough to matter to Watson’s overall score, since Watson could do vastly better and vastly faster than the average person on the remaining 90%, but you can’t have a fact-checker whose statements seem nonsensical even 10% of the time. The reason that Watson’s answers sound like nonsense as much as 10% of the time is that Watson is not intelligent in the sense of a normal human being. Watson merely parses the questions it’s given using its limited sets of parsing tools, looks for any sentence in its huge database with similar words, parses that sentence with its tools, and sees if there’s a close enough match in those two parsings. This will still occasionally mean that the answer Watson gives isn’t correct, and it will be clear even to an average person that it isn’t correct.

Furthermore, the kinds of databases that are necessary to fact-check a political debate are often very hard to find. Sure, there are some things that a politician says that easy to refute by thirty seconds of Googling, but there are many other things that require extensive research work by a well-trained researcher. The sorts of databases needed often require searching through several books, calling and speaking with several experts, and a whole lot of Googling.

I for one welcome our new computer overlords.

I’ll take “impossible” for 2000, Alex.

Emphasis added by me.

No kidding. I’m imagining Trump refusing to participate because “it’s a completely stupid idea, the stupidest idea ever, and whatever idiot at the network thought of it should be fired!” Ben Carson would claim it’s a socialist conspiracy. Hillary would claim it’s an underhanded attempt to revive email-gate. And so on. :wink:

I have to say, though, that I really disagree with Wendell Wagner about Watson and the question of intelligence. It’s way OT here and I’ll just say that we had a discussion about it here that might be worth a look. In one trivial sense the “parsing” and “pattern matching” description could equally be applied to how a human answers questions, but in reality both humans and Watson have deep semantic understanding and that description of how Watson works was absurdly superficial.

Then give us a very precise description of how Watson works. I heard the head of the team that developed Watson speak shortly after the TV program aired. That’s very close to what he said.

I don’t know what he said, but I do know what David Ferrucci and others have published about their work on Watson.

This is the wrong forum for an extended discussion on this topic, but I’ll just say a couple of quick things and give you some links to some prior discussions and posts that I already made on this.

I am by no means an expert on Watson but I posted a brief note about some of its internals here. More importantly, I think people who either dismiss machine intelligence because it’s “not the same” as ours or, worse, because they have some vague concept of how it works and so it can’t be “real” intelligence, are really missing the point. The philosopher John Searle is one of those; he proposed a thought experiment called the Chinese Room experiment in which he sought to prove that “mere” symbol manipulation is not the same as intelligence. I mentioned here how widely refuted this nonsense has been, and cited some pretty bright people who actually understand AI, instead of being mere dilettantes like Searle. The fact is that computational intelligence is a leading model in cognitive science of how our brains actually work, and few really doubt that emergent, adaptive computational systems can and do exhibit real intelligence that will eventually surpass our own in broad, general-purpose domains.

That explains why someone mentioning Searle’s Chinese Room on Facebook seemed to be taking the wrong things away from it compared to what I was. I think the thought experiment shows quite clearly that a complex system in total can understand something even though none of its component parts do. That he was actually using the example to make almost the exact opposite argument strikes me as very narrow-minded. How in the world can you not take away from the situation that “the room taken as a whole is able to converse in Chinese”?

Of course I know about the Chinese Room experiment and why it isn’t a good argument. I have master’s degrees in math and linguistics, so I’ve been reading about this sort of stuff for a long time. I know much more about this subject than you think I do from your dismissive reply, wolfpup. As I said, I heard David Ferrucci speak about how Watson works. (Yes, of course I meant Ferrucci.) It uses some very sophisticated tuning of its DeepQA system to the questions that Jeopardy! uses. The statements in political debates are much less stereotyped than Jeopardy! questions are. The databases that would have to be searched to fact-check those statements are much harder to search than the ones that would be relevant to Jeopardy! questions. Political fact-checking is a considerably different job than being a Jeopardy! champion. You couldn’t just sit Ken Jennings down without resources and have him come up with replies to the various statements made in the debates, even if he were to be given much more time than Watson takes. I’ve read articles in newspapers that refute statements in the debates, and it takes a lot of resources to do the refutation. The reporters had to call the staff of the political candidate and determine precisely what the candidate meant and where he got his facts and figures. They had to carefully trace back the route that the figures went through to see if those figures had been corrupted or misunderstood through the long path they took in being quoted from one source to another. Often trying to understand what a politician is saying in making a claim requires understanding the political philosophy of the politician and how it affects what he says in his speeches.

Start another thread on this subject if you don’t think it can be debated here. I’ve read some of the threads that you’re talking about. I know a lot about this subject. I’m not the newbie you think I am on the subject.

What do we do if Watson wins the debate?

wolfpup writes:

> . . . few really doubt that emergent, adaptive computational systems can and do
> exhibit real intelligence that will eventually surpass our own in broad, general-
> purpose domains . . .

Also, please note that I wasn’t speaking to this question at all. I wasn’t talking about whether computational systems would eventually surpass our own brains. I was saying that at the moment Watson wasn’t good enough to be able to fact-check political debates.

Wendell, in response to the last two posts, thank you for the acknowledgment in #11, and I don’t really disagree with much of what you said in #9, so maybe we’re not at risk of getting into a big OT argument here! :slight_smile:

I’m sorry if you thought I was “dismissive” of your statement but this is what I was reacting to – emphasis mine for extra clarity:
The reason that Watson’s answers sound like nonsense as much as 10% of the time is that Watson is not intelligent in the sense of a normal human being. Watson merely parses the questions it’s given using its limited sets of parsing tools, looks for any sentence in its huge database with similar words, parses that sentence with its tools, and sees if there’s a close enough match in those two parsings.
You can see why I brought up the Chinese Room argument. This is exactly what Searle was trying to claim – that “mere” pattern matching or “mere” symbol processing doesn’t embody true understanding and therefore such a system is “not intelligent” (your words). And Searle’s claim was regarded as nonsense right from the start by most of the AI and cognitive science communities, as I pointed out in the referenced link, on many levels. He obfuscates the difference between a component of a system and the synergy of the system as a whole, and even more fundamentally, he gets into a facile semantic quibble about what “understanding” is supposed to mean. As Steve Pinker points out, we’re often reluctant to use the word unless stereotypical conditions apply (i.e.- human actors) but human intelligence is intrinsically computational, too, because it’s carried out by “patterns of interconnectivity that carry out the right information processing”.

Perhaps I misunderstood you, and if we put aside your initial argument and take up the question of whether technology at the level of Watson could realistically operate as a realtime debate fact-checker, that’s a different issue from claiming that it’s “not intelligent” and on that issue you may well be right – for now.

The difficulty is that Watson would lack a sufficiently deep contextual understanding to optimize its fact-checking. One could semi-humorously trivialize it by imagining that the candidate’s first words are “I’m happy to be here tonight” and off Watson goes in a frenzy of fact-checking about the veracity of the candidate’s claim to happiness as a direct causative effect of the quality of the audience or the alleged happiness induced by mere presence in the city or auditorium. :wink: This is the kind of thing that AI skeptics use to scoff, yet if we can build and populate the right kinds of knowledge representations, deep semantic and contextual understanding begins to manifest as an emergent property of the system. How do we know this? Because humans do it with what often appear to be the same kinds of processes, and because systems like Watson do it, too, within particular skill sets and knowledge domains.

How hard it would be to adapt and train a system like Watson to do this well is an open question. I’d point out, though, that Jeopardy is no cake-walk either: many of the questions (“answers”) are worded as clever puns or other unusual twists of language, and the knowledge base that has to be mined is very diverse – it’s basically “all the stuff about the world that typical smart people might know”. Nevertheless I think you have some good points in the context of political debates, and in the near term if something like Watson were applied to debate analysis, it might have to be the way that one of Watson’s spinoff commercial products will be used in health care, namely as a clinical decision support system in which its role is to assist a human expert by providing highly customized, confidence-scored responses to human queries by mining a very vast knowledge base.

I think you’d have to modify the parser to understand debate-speak, which should be doable. The actual fact-checking would be pretty simple. The candidates are not being very subtle. A simple Google-search would have shown that Trump was wrong about China being in the trade agreement, figuring out that was the claim would be the tough part.

The real problem is that if anyone exposed by Watson wins IBM would never get another federal contract. And that being exposed as a liar seems to have no impact on the poll numbers.

I’m planning ahead in Post 3.