Well, I’m not sure who you’re arguing with here. I didn’t say Americans are sheep, first of all. What I described is a system that is set up not to inform, but to propagandize. Now, I am talking almost exclusively about our nation’s foreign relations policy. And, this thread is specifically about a poll that has to deal with a foreign matter. On domestic issues, there is MUCH more coverage from different sides. And, now AFTER the matter, the war’s circumstances are under a bright light. Before the war, you heard very little anti-war or pacifist rhetoric in the mainstream press.
Then, add to the fact that we aren’t taught to think critically, but more often are taught to accept our government’s foreign policy. Think about this with an open mind
Well, no, of course not. I don’t think you’re an idiot for not agreeing with me. I think you look from a decidedly different point-of-view. Disagree with me, fine.
I’m sticking to the OP about America.
You’re attacking me, not the argument.
I’m not in the OP.
I don’t believe that, didn’t say that. I explained a system that doesn’t fully inform the public.
Well, you can give me those unflattering reasons why I might choose to believe what I posted here. But, if you had just asked, I posted this here because I’ve sorta discovered this stuff recently because of the way our government and corporate-run media built up this war in Iraq. I didn’t make up what happened, and I didn’t make up the numbers that show that Americans weren’t informed on the issue. Refute the evidence, if you wish.
Btw, I don’t agree with the argument that people are getting what they demand, in regards to the news that comes in our home each day. I tend to believe that the public would readily consume a point-counterpoint approach to news that really has to divergent views. In the case of the war on Iraq, we could have had a well informed pacifist square off against a neo-conservative. In prime time. It could have been packaged, sold and successfully done.
Instead, we got a lot of the same for months. All very “patriotic” and not based in critical thinking.
A MODEST PROPOSAL FOR FIGHTING IGNORANCE IN AMERICA-
the Internet Porn Test- in order to access porn sites, a person will have to correctly answer a set of basic news & general knowledge questions, with the Qs varying with each log on- people will become scholars in no time.
We can’t have that. Such a thing is part of that evil American Conservativism! The very IDEA! Actually permitting the able-minded to benefit therefrom?!
Well, Uncle Bob wrote a lot of things over the years. I’m sure he was sober for at least some of it.
You’ve never actually done any real work on implementing any sort of social program, have you? I came up with the flaws because only an idiot/ideologue (identical) would try to implement any sort of system without working out how it would have to be done.
The point being that fascism is very easy to dream about but very ugly in reality.
Have you ever read Swift’s A Modest Proposal? Your proposal reminded me a great deal of it.
Hey, I found it hard to believe too. I am following on from the other posts which had cites. From what everyone is saying, there seems to be a problem with education in the USA.
By “ignorance has pervaded the whole society”, I mean of all ages and social groups, since the studies were directed at everyone, not just students.
I dont think it is a good idea that people demonstrate a certain level of intelligence to vote. Democracy is about everyone having a say, even people who are normaly to disillusioned or apathetic to vote.
Does anyone know if there is a problem with the USA education system?
Again, if you are looking at a couple of polls based on curent events, I fail to see how those results are a good or even fair measure of the “ignorance” of a society.
Many people believe everything they see on TV, including the news. Perhaps some of those who think that WMDs were found, saw one of the hundreds of reports regarding suspicious finds out in the desert. These were all later found to be false alarms, but if the person watching the news did not see the second story discounting the WMD find, they would still believe WMDs were present.
Wow. That is a pretty sweeping statement. You want to get a glimpse of how stupid you yourself can be? Try to participate in this debate currently going on SDMB. That debate is about reality in this world. How much do you know about that, and what can you contribute, if anything.
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How much do you think you know more than others, when it comes to politics and the US Foreign Policy?
So, exactly what did living next to a military base add to your political perception? Did you become privy to the top secret documents of the NSA, CIA, DIA, MOSAD, MI6, the Rand Corporation, etc? How knowledgeable and informed do you think you are about foreign affairs when “what is really going on” is never revealed to ordinary citizens like you and me, even if we are active in the military, let alone merely living next to a military base.
Given the above, isn’t it ironic that your SDMB thread name is "if you don’t know i won’t tell"? Are you implying that I have to establish a “need to know” before you can “tell”? I thought that was the motto of the Intelligence agencies.
Uh, the title of this thread specifies proposals, not a precis. In all honesty, my intent was to voice that IMO, the problem w/ ignorance in America results from a culture that doesn’t value education. In outlining the flaws that you noticed with my proposal, you made a few stupid suggestions to discredit the spirit of my post. No, women wouldn’t be tested for pregnancy periodically. The rest of your critique seems as absurd as that.
As I stated earlier, a similar program would be initiated by pre-natal checkups. If you wanted to be truly helpful, you might have taken my idea and simply scaled it down, or suggested any other number of changes. That is assuming you agree that a culture that doesn’t value intelligence contributes to ignorance in America, in addition to other assumptions.
Honestly, I don’t know anything about the history of fascism. I would actually have to look up the dictionary definition to break this down further. IMO, we give up certain rights when a situation is deemed harmful in some way. When considering the breadth of the OP, fighting ignorance in a country, IMO you would need to AT THE VERY MINIMUM change our educational system radically. My proposal sought to educate disadvantaged mothers so that their children don’t contribute to a growing (IMO) problem.
Based on this, I don’t see why coming up with a consensus for what should be taught to young/stupid parents should be equated outright w/ fascism. I also feel that forcing some parents to learn how to raise their children is preferable to forcing the children (once grown up) to a live behind bars. This is a huge generalization and I hope you don’t take this point and again run down a path of absurdity (no offense; IMO your 1st critique was absurd).
No I haven’t. I will check out a summary of the book on amazon.com and I might check it out from the library. Thanks for the suggestion.
Please note that again, most people don’t need this instruction. IMO those that do need it badly.
Exactly my point, people could not miss the first stories as they were broadcast every 15 minutes on all channels. When the more accurate stories were shown every six hours instead, the timing of ones news watching came into play.
