What is the matter with you? Would you anyone you know this way? A friend, coworker, or employee of a business you continually patronize? Maybe I don’t want to hear the answer to that, but I’ll hope against hope the answer is no.
We’re still discussing what to do here, but now I’m worried that if we make any more changes, we’ll be rewarding this kind of nastiness and encouraging people to act this way next time. Maybe I should shut this thread down so we can consider solutions to this problem without dealing with this kind of nonsense.
Rules are updated all the time.
I mean, if some posters are going to use the reason “Shut down some games because they’re nothing but post count parties”, then the rule has obviously been misinterpreted with that last part being in there.
The first part of that rule is still in effect: Games are fine as long as they have rules and a theme.
But the fact is, a lot of games are going to look like post count parties because they’re games.
It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed.
Marley, I think the flip side is that folks are receiving some mixed messages, and some of the messages from some of the moderators have also been phrased in, let’s say, less than respectful language. I agree that some folks here have been way too aggressive and taken it way too personally, but worrying about “rewarding this kind of nastiness” risks losing sight of the merit of the arguments made.
If y’all are still discussing what to do, that does sound different from other things we’ve heard, and it sounds hopeful (dare I hope?); it might be best if everyone, members and mods alike, breathes deep and thinks carefully before posting, working extra hard to treat each other respectfully.
Mmm, not really, for the same reason that encouraging the banning of obnoxious posters doesn’t violate anyone’s free speech rights. We’re in a private club, essentially, and ultimately our only vote is with our feet; if we want to stay in their space, we’re acknowledging that we’ll work by their rules. If we want to change the rules, we need to consider honey vs. vinegar.
Totally different from dealing with the police, and I’m a little astonished that you of all people wouldn’t distinguish between the two.
After discussion, not when it’s patently convenient for the same moderator who happens to post those post-padding threads the rules speak about, himself. One would say such a mod should recuse himself from changing that particular rule, actually.
Discussion has been going on for the last few days, almost the last week…and it’s becoming increasingly apparent that if some posters see game threads as “post count padding parties”, then the rules need to be updated to be made more clear.
It no longer applies to that forum… because you said so right now, a.k.a. change by fiat. I accept that you can do that - as that forum’s moderator, you’re functionally in charge - but you have to admit that the following doesn’t really seem like someone looking for a solution:
A: We have this problem, everyone’s trying to think hard about different ways to improve things. Isn’t there a rule defining the limits of game threads?
B: There’s no rule about game threads.
A: Look, here, the rule defining the limits of game threads. Maybe if we looked at actually applying that rule, it might help the situation.
B: I’m running things, and I just deleted the rule, so don’t worry about it.
Regardless of if you meant it that was, it’s pretty clear how it comes off just from how quick and vehement the reaction has been.
I disagree on this, in line with the other arguments over the last page or two of this thread. The Mafia threads don’t particularly interest me, but they don’t look like post padding topics at all. They’re pretty clearly forum members playing a game. Many of the other types of threads are less so, on a continuum that at least three people have clearly defined thus far, and that I’m not going to rehash again.
“Working by their rules” means not breaking their rules, not not complaining. But you equated complaining with antagonizing them, as though just the act of complaining was enough to be considered antagonistic. That’s what I mean.
True. And nobody’s perfect, but it seems to me this is only getting worse. We are definitely continuing to consider the proposals on their merits. We try very hard to do that at all times; it’s one of the things you need to be able to do as a mod around here. But at this point people are actively discouraging the staff from engaging with them, which doesn’t do anybody any good. Someday maybe posters who like to yell at the staff will get this message: if you want to solve a problem, this isn’t the way to do it.
I didn’t call it a personal attack. But it’s rude and doesn’t help this situation. At this point, yes, six pages of people complaining is enough for us to get a sense of the problem, and letting a few more people vent doesn’t help.
I’m not worried about that. There’s not a single idea out there that will satisfy everybody, and so I might be satisfied with making everybody take a breather. Unfortunately most ATMB threads get cruder as they go on, so yes, stopping the discussion for a couple of days might actually be an improvement.
A rule you, as mod of that forum, didn’t seem to be aware even existed - and when it was brought to your attention, you summarily excised it, rather than open it to any discussion. So you can see how some of us might be a bit dubious as to the nature of any discussion going on…
He actually said "oh, hey, look, there’s a rule here that says you can’t just spam the thread with no content posts. Hmm, that’s one of the things here that people are already proposing, and a partial solution to our problem, and hey - it’s even codified in the rules!
So… let me go ahead and take away this rule here…"
He has stated in the past that he’s with us on this issue, fighting for what we’re advocating in private discussions with the rest of the mods. Considering he has been one of the hardest people to come in and defend current policy and argue against our requests, and now just specifically removed a rule that could be used as a tool to improve the situation as per our discussion, it becomes immediately apparent that he is indeed not the advocate that he claims to be.
This is logical and not personal at all. The other guy you quoted is simply saying “you may be a nice guy, but you’re not being a good moderator”, and considering the state of the game room right now, that seems like a pretty accurate assessment.
Your response sounds like we said something beyond the pale, something personal. But we didn’t. We only stuck to his actions and argument positions on this issue. No personal attacks or nasty language. Your response is, quite frankly, puzzling. It seems like you’re responding to other sorts of posts, because the ones you quoted are not what you describe.
For me to say that Idle Hands does not live up to the advocate for the board’s users on this issue he claims to be, that is not a personal attack, nor is it nasty, and if you lock the thread because of that, it will be transparent that you are locking the thread because you have no real substantive response to our well-made arguments.
It seems to me that you are straining to create a justification for locking this thread in the hopes of quashing protest, and so you’re creating an extremely flimsy pretense with imagined “nasty” behavior. If you lock this thread, it will not be because anyone said anything beyond the pale, or that anyone on our side stopped arguing in good faith, or that anyone is being nasty. It would be born out of indifference and disdain for the wants of your users.
I disagree. I think the rules reflect the intent of the forum. If the moderation doesn’t reflect the rules of the forum, the intent of the forum should be reconsidered by all parties involved.
Just as an example, if a rule of the forum included not insulting but the moderation didn’t reflect that, it might still be the intent of the forum to disallow it.
Nothing in the Game Room is running afoul of the rule that was there…which means, if people are saying there are, it might be time to make the rule more clear.
Yep, and there’s just as many members who think those threads are fine and just as much games as any other game in that forum.
The original problem here was that the games are all clogging the game room and something should be done about them, something I agree with whole-heartedly.
Over time, however, the topic has seemed to change from* “Is there anywhere these games can be put or any thing we can do to make everyone happy?”* to *“shut down all of the games that I don’t like or agree with” *