Protests happening around the world

Great Debates
1

You may or may not be aware of the protests that started in NY on September 17. The purpose of this protest, and others that have started around the U.S. and world, is to finally stand up to corporate greed that has been destroying us and the planet for decades. We are stuck using oil, natural gas, nuclear power, coal and other non renewable resources which hurt us and the environment, with the help of the government, oil companies killed alternatives back in the 70’s, forcing us to be dependent on what they could make money off of. Pharmaceutical companies have been getting rich at our expense for just as long. Pharma companies with the help of government, hides the truth about alternatives, and make new laws to hinder the progress of safer treatments in cancer and other terminal illnesses. Find out about Dr. Brzynski and see what they tried to do to him.

They never asked us if they could build nuclear power plants, and even when thousands of people protested each one being constructed, they hid that fact. Our media has helped them hide what they are doing for decades.

Corporations run our government and the media. Just look around and think about things a bit, do some research on Dr. Brzynski, and Monsanto, natural gas drilling, pharmaceutical companies. Join the protests that are beginning all over the country now. You are being told lies about it in the media. They are mocking and spinning this movement in their attempt to squash it.

The media says there is no clear message, well that’s not true. Here is the first message, these are things that are wrong and need to be changed. Please read this for the truth, http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/ . Come to the chat room where live video is being streamed. This last Saturday there were over 6,000 people marching in NY, and over 22,000 people watching on their computers. come find out the truth for yourself. Stop listening to the media. Chat and video Global Revolution on Livestream

2

May I ask who or what gives you (or your group) the authority to speak for all the people protesting on Wall Street?

3

It has been a group consensus, that corporate greed and the government allowing to pass rules and laws that corporations want so they get richer even if it hurts us, that this is the main problem, and that from that pinpoint, almost all of our other problems come. I don’t have a “group” . I just want a better world, and I have been waiting for something like this for a long time. If you can think of a problem we have that doesn’t stem from the corruption in the government, feel free to join any of the occupy protests and join in discussions.

4

And how was that consensus obtained? I’m sure those sentiments would be popular down there, but I’m not sure anybody can say they have The Message.

5

It seems like too many people at the protests are thinking this is some kind of festival. It’s not, and the media is having too easy a time of grabbing clueless people and interviewing them, so they are able to spin this in all sorts of directions. Most of the people at the protests don’t have access to computers or tv now, so they don’t know what all is happening and what people are talking about. I do with there were more communication at the protests trying to inform more of the newcomers. I can’t see that is being done. I hope they get a bit more organized soon. The General Assembly has come up with the first link I gave in my first post. Unfortunately not many people have read it, and apparently not many people on the ground are spreading that info there either.

6

There’s a saying that goes “two can keep a secret if one is dead,” and it’s kind of similar with protests and movements. The fewer people you have, the easier it is to keep things focused - but the fewer people you have, the less influence you have because you’re preaching to the choir instead of reaching out to draw people to your side. Focus and ideological purity is sacrificed in favor of broader support and getting things done. And fun isn’t your enemy as long as it helps get the message out (although the left in particular has been known to have a problem with stuff like puppet shows distracting people from serious causes).

7

What are your thoughts on this? I have been upset about the way the world is for most of my life. I want so badly for these protests to work. At least one thing is happening, more people are realizing that this country and world are indeed in alot of trouble, and something has to be done. Are you following the protests in the livestream at all? I guess I will keep sending emails to occupy wall street and hope that someone is reading them, and I will keep blabbing my face off trying to inform people of what this protest is really about.

8

No you’re not. Many people live a lifestyle completely or almost completely without resorting to any of those. It just takes a willingness to transform your lifestyle drastically. Internet posting may not be part of your new way of life. What have you specifically done to rid yourself of the energy forms you mention?

No. Alternatives exists today, alternatives existed in the 70s – although of a much worse quality.

Nobody is forcing you to buy their products.

No they are not. Information about alternative treatments is everywhere. It’s just that most people rather put their life in hands of pharma companies than aura healing. You are free to do otherwise.

Yes they asked. And thousands of people protesting are not very impressive in a nation of hundreds of millions.

I guess it’s not your media then. You should make some new media then. The Internet has lowered the bar for this, so it’s much easier these days.

9

In the 70’s they could have worked on making alternatives better, but oil didn’t want that to happen. They put an end to research and working to develop better alternatives. The government still gives oil companies tax breaks and subsidies and how much money do they make yearly?
Do you know of what pharma with the help of the government tried to do to Dr. Brzynski? He is just one doctor they have done this to, but his is the best known.

Thousands of people protesting nuclear power plants, but if media would have covered them, there would have been more. If media hadn’t helped hide the truth about nuclear power, not many people at all would have wanted that. Especially, when there were alternatives that should have been being worked on instead. And here, how many years later, we finally have some production going on alternatives, AFTER some corporations have figured out how to make it more profitable for them.

10

I didn’t, this is first I heard of him, so I searched a little and read up on him.(Unrelated; you droped a U, Its Dr. Burzynski) If this guy is your best case of the evil pharma companies ruling the government, then you really don’t have an argument. Claiming the government has been somehow opressing him or interfering with his reaserch is laughable. The real story is quite the reverse. If the government wasn’t kowtowing to the pressure from Alternative “Medicine” groups he would have been out of buisiness along time ago.

11

This was already linked to and quoted in the Pit thread, but let’s look at what these people are saying:

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
Cite that the foreclosures were illegal? How many, exactly?

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
Check. Many of us were against the bailouts to begin with.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
Broad brush anyone? Many corporations are leaders in eliminating discrimination. The last two are not protected classes (yet), so blame the government there.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
Again, that is so broad and generalized as to be meaningless.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
And created lots of drugs that help people, too. There are tradeoffs, and while I think there is a good discussion to be had on this subject, it’s not so one sided as they indicate.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
Probably. But that’s what unions are for.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
Corporations have done this? And since when is a college education a “human right”?

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
Well, duh! That’s is their job. To create shareholder value. Sometimes that means outsourcing jobs. Overall, that is good for the economy (and the people in it) even it may hurt some people.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
Wrong.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
Again, that’s their job. And the whole business of tying health insurance to your employer is one of the stupidest things we do in this country.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
We have given it away as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
Really?

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
Yeah, probably. But that’s why we have laws.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
Well, they couldn’t do that without the cooperation of the government. Blame the latter.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
I’m shocked. SHOCKED to hear that “they” would do such a thing.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
“They” can’t do that. Start your own alternative energy company if you can make it work.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
Without patent law protection, those drugs would never have been created in the first place. The failure rate for new drugs is ridiculously high (listen to NPR’s discussion on that today), and the approval process often takes a decade or more.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
What percent of the time have “they” done that?

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
No, they don’t “control” the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
“They” have? Who?

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
How does one perpetuate colonialism “at home”? And how do they perpetuate it abroad w/o the full support of the US government?

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
Who is “they”, and how often does this happen?

**They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. **
Uhm, “they” are just meeting the insatiable demands of the US government.

12

The protests are accomplishing little, and I say that as someone who is so liberal I’m damn near socialist. Protesting is an excellent way to draw attention to the problem but that is only a small portion of the solution. I can’t tell you how many of the protesters I see (and I see a ton of them since I live in NYC and I work in the Financial District) using their smart phones, drinking Pepsi products, using BoA and Chase ATMs, etc. despite the fact that these companies outsource many of their jobs overseas. How many of those people do you think drove long distances at $4 a gallon going straight to Exxon and Haliburton to come to this protest instead of taking the train? I promise you the CEOs they are so upset with over these decisions don’t care if there are a bunch of people hanging out in the street as long as they keep getting their paychecks every week. If they were really serious about the point they are trying to make they would be making a point of using public transportation, banking with credit unions, etc. Unless you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and research which places employ local people at reasonable wages and spend your money with them instead of buying all your crap at Wal-Mart you aren’t accomplishing much of anything by complaining or protesting.

13

It’s a vicious circle. Those at the top have the money and influence, and will use that money and influence to stay at the top.

It’s not about doing the right thing or the wrong thing, it’s all about getting to the top and staying there. It’s a big part of everything we do and it’s not about to change, unfortunately.

14

I love that you kids are getting upset about the status quo; that’s what kids are *supposed *to do. But please, don’t be as dumb as some of us were in the '60s with our “Don’t Trust Anyone Over 30” signs. These fluff-headed hippies blocking streets and bridges with their diffuse “Down with This Sort of Thing!” ethos are doing no one any good.

Pick a cause, study it, and try to do something *effective *about it.

15

While your first contention is true, the second is laughable. The government may or may not be to blame for not making identity and orientation a protected class*, but that hardly negates the moral culpability for discrimination on the part of employers who practice it.

*To the extent that there should be “protected classes”, those two should be included.

16

That was dishonest. The protesters are not a bunch of kids. They are a cross section of America. They are all ages and lots of occupations .
It is typical to besmirch an organization with derogatory names.
I was a marcher in anti-Vietnam marches long ago. They were not a bunch of hippies and kids either. There were plenty of housewives, kids, grandmothers , priests and nuns in the marches.
The ones at colleges were of course dominated by the young. I suppose you could figure out why if you put your mind to it.

17

Let me let you in on a little secret: There are no renewable energy sources. All energy sources are finite resources, which will run out someday-- This is guaranteed by the laws of thermodynamics. The difference is, some resources will run out quickly, and some will take a very long time to run out. Nuclear is one of the ones that will take a very long time.

Or you could divide up energy sources based on how much they pollute the environment. Interestingly, the ones that pollute the least tend to also be the ones which will last the longest. Nuclear is also in this category, polluting far less than its major competitor.

If you demand clean, long-lasting energy sources that can meet our needs, you are demanding nuclear, since it’s the only current technology that fills that bill.

18

As a casual reading of your post history demonstrates.

This is just a liberal whine-fest with no goals and no real ideas other than “money is bad unless it is given to me.”

19

Note that I said “many”, not all or most. Where I live, in Silicon Valley, the high tech industry is ahead of curve on this issue. But asking corporations, in general, to take the lead on this is just stupid. Each one is going to have its own policy, its own issues with customers, shareholders and employees.

If we, as a nation, haven’t decided that a certain group of people should be a protected class, don’t blame corporations for being in the same boat. Some are going to get it and some aren’t.

At any rate, I think these protesters would be better served to aim their demands at specific industries, and when they can at specific corporations. A list of complaints against “them” just puts that group in conspiracy theory territory.

20

I think wind, solar and hydro fits the bill alot better than nuclear does.