Pseudoscience that became Mainstream?

The Graham Diet (developed by Sylvester Graham around 1829) was considered nutty pseudoscience in its day, consisting, as it did, of fresh fruits and vegetables, whole wheat products, fresh milk cheese and eggs in moderation, but no meat, and no spices.

Today I think many nutritionists would agree that it sounds like a good healthy diet.

(Of course the reasons for the Graham diet - not for good health, but rather because it was supposed to reduce impure thoughts - would still put the diet in the realm of pseudoscience.)

As an alternative to the various threads recently that all seem to be asking "What wondrous things originally considered to be kooky nonsense and rejected by Dogmatic Science are today accepted fact? — I propose another debate, on the following:

What doctrines or theories continue to be rejected by science/medicine today despite the presence of overwhelming evidence in their favor?

That’s going to be a very short debate.

On the other hand, we have this question:

What pseudoscience/alternative medical practices continue to have fervent adherents today in spite of logic and evidence being overwhelming against them?

That discussion could go on indefinitely.

And that’s a key difference between pseudoscience and science. The latter is self-correcting as new information is assimilated. Pseudoscience keeps spinning nonsense indefinitely, because it has no self-correcting mechanism.

Example: alternative medical practices are rarely discarded no matter how ineffective they are. Mainstream medical practice is changing and updating itself all the time.

Isn’t “conjecture” a better term to describe something that sounds like a hypothesis but is never testable? Seems to me like “hypothesis”, enshrined as the first step in the so-called “scientific method”, implies testability.

What? Explain this a little further if you could. I read somewhere that ear coning, though it does not work, looks and feels like it works. Moreover, sucking the wax out of the canal certainly sounds possible to me, though it also sounds a little dangerous and uncomfortable, whether or not ear coning accomplishes it. I think I read that ear coning products make stuff that looks kind of like ear wax whether they are used in the ear or over a test tube, so, while the vivid popping experience at the end of the coning may make you think you’re cleared out if you were already expecting to be, the coning is only exposed as a trick when you experiment over the test tube, or by studying the ears before and after, or by other more subtle methods. Why is the “sucks out wax” explanation ridiculous, and even self-evidently so?

Further - if the explanation is ridiculous, why do you say most such products may very well not work, instead of saying none of them work at all?

Note that I’m not suggesting it works, but only questioning your characterization of the explanation surrounding it.

I think the people about 100 years ago that were using geological erosion models and, I think, others, to state that the earth was many millions of years old would fit this description. The scientific establishment as represented by Lord Kelvin said this was wrong and was rather rude about it, practically suggesting that the dissent was a disciplinary matter. Kelvin’s reasoning was that the earth was losing heat to space at a calculable rate through infrared radiation, and could not at its beginning have been hotter than a few thousand degrees (you will note that for obvious reasons he would not have said a few thousand kelvins), and so working backwards the earth could be tens of thousands of years old, or hundreds of thousands. Towards the end of his tirade he was willing to admit to, I think, ages possibly as high as two million years.

The missing element (so to speak) was nuclear fission happening in the earth’s interior, generating extra heat.

Maybe the “sucks out wax” is not self-evidently ridiculous. I suppose I was imprecise. There are, in fact, medical vacuums that do this. Although to carry that over to a heat-based air pump does seem quite problematic.

I don’t say none of them work because all of them haven’t been tested. That is a rather correct stance to take! (In particular, I postulate that an ear cone that is constructed/used in such a way that forces smoke or hot air into the ear canal will exert an effect, and that effect may have positive aspects to it. Irritation can easily affect the mechanism of oil/wax production.)

If we had tested every single ear-cone product, I would say we we’d have discovered the ones that exert a real effect via the smoke/irritation route. If you don’t test every product, or at least make a real effort to study the variation in products without assuming they’re all the same, then you can’t be a smug smartass who’s sure they all don’t work.

(Now I’m not saying irritating the ear canal is the best therapy for treating earwax. Using oil, or hydrogen peroxide, or just not messing with your ears in the first place are all very effective treatments that would be difficult to rival. But if we discovered that some forms of ear candling do in fact work then hopefully some people could STFU and introspect for a second about the vitriol they love to pour on things that they haven’t studied in enough depth for true certainty.)

You’ve made a few choices of words that make your challenge near-tautological. You want us to find things for which the evidence to be overwhelming, and present today.

Now, maybe I could argue for some such things. Actually, I’ve got a really good one: Group Selection. Here’s another: Hormesis.

The point is that theories get viciously rejected by science/medicine that will have sufficient evidence for them sometime in the future. But why do I think you’re the kind of status-quo-apologist who doesn’t get bothered by this? Regardless, this is the scenario that threads like these try to examine.

I’ve seen conjecture used more for math, but that could be a way of saying it. I think string theory is probably testable someday, but something like the many-worlds hypothesis probably isn’t.

We’ve had this argument before and the counter-argument is always the same.

Scientists do not as a group reject things that appeal to you just to irritate you. In fact, scientists as a group are working every minute of every day to come up with things not currently accepted, because that’s the surest route to fame and fortune. There are thousands of small-t theories in every science that scientists put forth that are not yet accepted. Why do scientists wait? Because science is a whole. Every single accepted theory eventually impacts every other “known” in all science. If you change or add anything you affect everything. Therefore evidence must be overwhelming for anything new. Premature acceptance is as bad as accepting fraud or nonsense. It damages everything it touches.

Scientists were completely correct to reject Wegener just as they are completely correct to reject hormesis. Which, to say the obvious, some scientists are currently investigating. Few are convinced.

Something rejected today will have sufficient evidence in the future, true. But this can’t be said of any one theory in particular.

A conjecture in math is usually something that eminent mathematicians feel to be true but can’t yet prove. There is no reason to think that it is literally unprovable, just that a proof one way or the other hasn’t yet been found. The most famous today is probably Goldbach’s Conjecture.

Hypothesis is pretty much a synonym for conjecture and is often used that way, as in Riemann’s Hypothesis. Math does have a third case, something that is formally undecidable, and this is different from other sciences. However, just because we haven’t been clever enough to think of a way to test certain hypotheses doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong, pseudoscience, or formally undecidable. Most of the time we just don’t know enough yet.

How was it right of scientists to reject Wegener with no mechanism in favor of a series of incredibly flimsy mechanisms to reconcile the old ideas with the mounting body of evidence for continental drift? Would it have been more valid if he’d said the plates moved around on the back of a giant turtle or something?

This is a classic tactic used by opponents of science-- to say that a theory is wrong because a theory can’t explain everything all the way up the chain of causation. But progressive theories that move ever further up that chain is really how science usually works.

Take a look at this OP in another thread.

You have several facts put together by a load of supposition to reach a hypothesis. Is it “entirely plausible”? Most people in the thread are dismissing it out of hand.

What did Wegener have at the time? Some observations, some facts - many of which were flat out wrong, that he claimed led to a hypothesis that was entirely plausible.

We know today that the hypothesis was correct. Good for us. That’s what makes science the superior mode of inquiry. It corrects itself from the inside out.

At the time, however, things didn’t look quite as clear cut.

If you disagree, then all you have to do is to say exactly which of today’s hypotheses will get that validation in the future. Or, for that matter, the way the stock market will move next week. Hindsight is wonderful but it’s a total cheat.

This is true, of course. However, scientists are no less likely than any other group of human beings to have prejudices, be judgmental, and dislike others personally. And one of the worst insults a scientist can throw out there is to call something pseudoscience.

The science-is-infallible crowd always say, “Oh, if it was arrived at with rigor and turned out to be right, no one would have ever called it pseudoscience-- it was merely an idea that hadn’t caught on yet.” I think that whitewashes the history of science a bit.

I agree that the ideal scientist is open-minded, and does take the high road. But I’m sure there were plenty of scientists (and even more lay science fans, like myself and many in this thread) who would have been only too happy to dismiss, say, Feynmann diagrams (which plenty of folks thought were stupid, crazy, heretical or all three) as “pseudoscience” in the days before they were widely accepted.

No. Just flatly no. People do disagree on the definition of pseudoscience, but that doesn’t mean that we can just throw out all attempts to rein it in from “anything I don’t like.”

Any it’s especially nonsense to accuse scientists of calling their differences with other scientists pseudoscience. As far as I can tell, scientists don’t typically (or even atypically) use that term about other scientists in the normal course of their careers. No scientist ever called Feynman* diagrams pseudoscience. You may misuse the term but that shouldn’t carry over to people who know better.

Produce some cites to back what you say. I submit you’re simply wrong about this.

*Is it pseudoscience not to care enough about the man’s name to spell it right?

These arguments about the nature of science, and the acceptance of theories are exactly why I keep harping on about a much more rigorous definition of psuedo-science. Most of the above arguments about the manner in which hypotheses get accepted would go away if this was understood. Plausibility is neither necessary nor sufficient for a scientific hypothesis. It is nice to have, but plays second fiddle to the need for falsifiability. Not understanding that is the cause of many many arguments. If a hypothesis is plausible, but unfalsifiable, it isn’t science. If it is not plausible, but is falsifiable it is science. Same goes for mechanism.

If a scientist proposes a hypotheses that is testable, then no scientist will label it as psuedo-science. On the other hand, lots of scientists will say it is false, rubbish, “not even wrong” etc. Typically because it has implications that might contradict well accepted ideas, or simply is really inelegant. (The nature of elegance, truth and beauty is one of those areas of science that comes in under the radar of Popperian science, and causes all sorts of, mostly good natured, discussion.) On the other hand, scientists know that there are occasionally ideas that really are important and do pan out that are so confronting. But, they happen only very occasionally, and there are many many more such ideas that do indeed simply turn out to have no supporting substance, and quietly die.

Science does suffer from human bias. On the other hand, this is pretty well understood, and in the back of any good scientists mind is the little voice that points this out.

A few examples of where science wanders about a bit.

Fred Hoyle. Fred was IMHO on of the most egrarious omissions from the cannon of Nobel lauriates. He worked out the vast majority of the manner in which stars create the elements. This was really really good stuff, and stands head and shoulders above some other Nobel winning physics. Yet he was never in contention. Why? Because he stuck to the steady state theory of the universe, when the evidence for the big bang continued to mount. (Fred actually coined the term “big bang”. It was supposed to belittle the theory, but instead named it.) Fred’s work on the genesis of the elements is accepted as core solid physics. The steady state theory is pretty much dead. So he remained a controversial figure, and enough other influential physicists didn’t feel comfortable with him that he never got the big prize.

Cold fusion. I wasn’t completely absolutely clear it was rubbish. There ws just enough wiggle room, that if there was some other process involved, that just maybe there was a chance there was something to it. That Fleishman and Pons were both eminent experimental chemists lent a tiny tiny bit of additional credibility to the idea. They were however not atomic physicists, so their domain knowledge was not a good fit. But no-one could reproduce the results, and the whole thing fizzled out. As it should. The fact that the discovery was announced through the media, and not the scientific press didn’t exectly endear things to the scientific community, but enough physicists were interested enough to try to reproduce the experiments. If it were not for the media furor, we might have found the whole story a good example of science at work. If the story had been handled in the normal manner, though scientific publication, peer review, and the like, it would probably have been an interesting story that would have got as far as the pages of New Scientist and the appropriate journals, before dying. And it is important that the odd left field idea like this does get an airing, and otherwise eminent, tenured, scicntists with nothing to lose but their time, are those that can try them. But someone got greedy, and it all went to rubbish.

In the course of researching my exhaustive, withering rebuttal to your claims, I came to the conclusion that you’re probably right. I hate it when that happens.

I think I rather sloppily conflated two points of view: the one I was really trying to make was that scientists, like anyone else, can be jerks sometimes. When a new idea comes along, the response isn’t always a unified chorus of, “That’s fascinating, tell me more!” There’s plenty of ridicule, dismissiveness, and derision. The scientific establishment wasn’t exactly eager to embrace the Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle; for example, and Edison wasn’t a particularly good sport about AC current.

The second point was that this ridicule and dismissiveness included the term “pseudoscience.” I tacked that on in a sloppy manner, and it’s pretty much wrong. Oops.

I do believe that ideas contradicting the established order don’t immediately get a fair hearing from everyone, and the view that the history of science is a march from strength to strength with no obduracy or pig-headedness along the way is unrealistic.

Missed edit window: “embrace Heisenberg’s” not “embrace the Heisenberg’s.”

Since we’re counting spelling and all. :wink:

I have no argument with this. It’s almost trivially true. But it’s not what this thread is about and a pat on the back for admitting that.

Cats were once believed to be the familiars of witches. Now we know their evilness is a product of evolution.

(my cat is staring down at me as I type this)

Cats aren’t evil.

[sub]The fact that I’m a Leo and dated a Witch is irrelevant to this discussion.[/sub]