A hell of a lot of pubs are closing down in the U.K. and the smoking ban is getting the blame plus increased prices.
Now the increased prices discouraging people from going to the pub I personally think is part of the problem but I have never come across anyone whos said that they’ve stopped going to pubs because they cant smoke.
What I DO believe is that many grown ups have stopped going to pubs because of the number of young males out on a night who cant hold their drink.
If the YMs(and in some areas young women) dont actually start fights with the grownups or each other then they are still likely to act obnoxiously shouting,swearing,throwing up or falling over.
We as a nation seem to have produced several generations of Walter Mitty type wanna be “roughie toughies” who as soon as they have a few shandies feel that they have to act like 8 year olds and by doing so everyone will think that they’re incredibly Macho.
Even if the venue itself hasn’t got a reputation for drunkeness and violence people are still likely to encounter that behaviour either on their way to or from their night out.
And THAT is what is IMHO killing the brewery trade.
Having never been to a pub in the UK, I can’t state an opinion on them…but IME here in the States (as a patron and a bartender) young males at bars drinking and making a nuisance of themselves is not a new and/or shocking development. In fact it’s pretty much standard. The cheaper the drinks, the more likely this is to occur, but I’ve seen plenty of it at expensive martini bars and hotels, too.
I find it hard to believe that this behavior could really be a contributing factor to the closing of pubs, in the UK or elsewhere, because it’s gone on for as long as there’ve been public bars.
My smoking friends and I definitely take account of the outside facilities when choosing which pub to go to - one of my favourite cider pubs gives the smoker the choice of a tiny yard right up against the toilets or out the front on a narrow pavement - a shooting gallery for the scorn of non-smoking passers-by. So I usually go somewhere else; the place is half empty.
But isn’t it mainly smaller local pubs closing rather than the city centre bars where violent thuggery is most prevalent? I do agree that ‘Binge Britain’ drunkards put ordinary people off going out, but surely they usually just pick a less trashy alternative venue, rather than stay at home. Local (or at least more traditional) pubs as opposed to city centre bars tend to have some older punters about who help to police things a bit in my experience.
Pub numbers have been decreasing forever. My parents remember a time when every row of terraced houses had a pub at the end (a la Coronation Street), and you’d have row upon row of terraced housing.
When I was young, my village had seven pubs. It’s now only got about five. That’s still more than enough for the local market.
Yeah, the oldies here talk about the days when Sydney had “a pub on every corner”. Literally too- in the centre of the city, an average intersection would have four large corner pubs on it (you can still see them recycled as clothing shops and cafes).
I don’t know about the UK, but pub licences here used to be limited by geographic area. You couldn’t just set up a pub if the local area already had its quota (and it usually did). In recent times, the government abolished this, and now businessmen are buying cheap pubs in rural and outback areas, closing the pubs down, and moving the licence to the cities where they will start a seedy bar full of slot machines. This is at once making the cities horrible and destroying the soul of the small towns. It’s utterly criminal.
It’s halfway between the two in Britain - local authorities decide what’s appropriate for any one locality, and issue licences or reject applicants as they see fit.
And when the only two things to do in the evening were watch Corrie or go to the pub, it’s understandable how they could survive. They were also tied to breweries, so were essentially a factory outlet rather than an independent retail concern.
My opinion on the reason for the bizarre numbers quoted by the trade about pub closures? It’s bad pubs which close. Be they ones which haven’t seen a lick of paint in fifty years (nor bleach in the toilets for the same time), or drug-dealer dens, or just simply publicans with no business sense. If a landlord does his job properly, anyone creating an unpleasant athmosphere for others won’t be getting served anything more.
I’ve drank in a fair few places in different parts of the U.S. and the big difference that I’ve noticed is the much lower level of physical violence then that of the U.K.,I remember when my colleagues and I were pleasantly surprised when we actually saw a fight between two people(As opposed to several onto one) actually facing each other and when one of them went down his opponent actually waited for the other bloke to get up off of the floor before resuming the fight.
My own opinion of this is that in the U.S. if things get out of hand or someone starts on someone purely out of drunken bravado you never know if the victim is going to produce a firearm.
But as I say that is only my guess.
There is a pub close to where I live that used to do a good trade with ordinary working people coming from miles around to watch bands and socialise,the atmosphere was great.
But then for no apparent reason young Chavs from the nearby housing estate started using the pub,lots of swearing,hard staring and acting the hard man.
The original crowd stayed away in droves and the pub closed due to lack of money.
It has since reopened under different management three times,the last owner being a mate of a mate who told me that the Walter Mittys drove away businees to a point where by it wasn’t worth continuing.
I have also seen this happen to an entire night out district where it used to be really friendly and welcoming,lots of hen parties because they felt safe but now its only drunken youngsters out for a fight who go to the area.
I could give other examples from my own experience but I expect you’ve got the message.
I don’t go to the pub anywhere near as often as I used to (old age, y’know…) but certainly the level of violence, aggressive behaviour and “chavvery” has increased considerably in recent times. There are some pubs in town that we only go to for food and then escape to better places at the earliest opportunity.
I’m tempted to say that the troublemakers are the lager-louts, I’m a real ale drinker and in the pubs where there’s naff all choice of lager but a fine selection of real ales, there’s barely any bother. Nip down the road to the generic cheapy pub (the Goose or the local Wetherspoons) where you can choose from about 47 different draught and bottled lagers chilled to your desired temperature, and you’ll get far more loutish behaviour. In fact, our local Wetherspoons is where we go to see life - if you don’t see at least one fight in there you’ll be going home disappointed.
But this is surely because of the older demographic that real ale places attract. Like I said above, I reckon that you get trouble mainly where there aren’t a few old hands to keep the youngsters in line. Just a pity it takes so many people until middle age to learn a sense of pub etiquette.
I suppose, in some areas. But (as a 'merican), I have to say that–at least, in my middle-class world–the bigger difference may simply be that there is no such thing as a “friendly brawl” between folks. Violence is all or nothing. You avoid violence at all costs, but then go all the way if you have to fight. If someone hit me or one of my friends in a bar, the fight would end with someone (quite possibly me, mind you) beaten unconscious, not with merely a black eye and a pat on the back and then back to drinking.
It’s also amusing to see the ales vs. lagers argument … there is no distinction made here, whatsoever. (Save that all the ales are usually over-hopped, snooty microbrews.) Hell, in most bars, people aren’t even aware that what they’re drinking is a lager. It’s just “beer.”
I’m not sure if this is true, but I can vaguely remember reading a book by someone who had walked the length of the border that there is only one town in Ireland to have neither bookie or pub.
That just seems insane to me. I mean, sure, people get shot in this country, but I can count on one hand the number of fights I’ve seen in my life. The US has a reputation for being awash in violence, but we don’t have this cavalier attitude towards brawling. (Or, maybe, the class division is so much stronger here that it’s happening all the time in worse parts of towns, but my kind just never sees it.)
FWIW, I’ve only ever seen one fight in a pub, and that was after England got knocked out of the World Cup on penalties (it was more a riot than a fight - there were tables and chairs being thrown about and everything - I ended up hiding in a broom cupboard with my friend until the bouncers and police waded in ).
You’re much more likely to see fights in town, where all the nightclubs are on the same street, and all empty at pretty much the same time.
Hundreds of drunk young men + lack of taxis + rain = disaster.
It’s more a metaphor than a real distinction. Wetherspoons pubs often have a variety of real ales & bitters, admittedly badly-kept, while on the other hand, the best pub by a long shot around these parts for decent beer also has a vast selection of lagers, both on tap and bottled. And while normally filled with young people, is not a place you’d expect a fight to break out. Another example of this contradiction is my preferred rather lively boozer near the football ground for pre/post-match drinks, which also morphs into a heavy metal venue in the evening…as you’ve probably guessed, this landlord also goes against the stereotype and takes pride in the quality of his ale.
Let’s not overstate things. While admittedly not a great pub-goer, I have been in a few in my time and I have never seen any violence or intimidating behaviour. They can get a bit rowdy during England football games, but that’s about it. I don’t recall ever having witnessed a street fight, either.
The worst thing I’e seen recently was in a Yates pub where two people started kissing and got rather carried away and sort of forgot that not only were they not at home but at a table right by the front window. Until the manager intervened, that is.
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