No, I was aware you’re a conservative. I had hoped that pointing out that what you were saying was essentially communism might awaken you to the absurdity of your position. But you appear to be immune to irony.
And I say good for them. I have no problem with people who choose to work non-unionized jobs.
But that’s not we’re talking about is it? What we’re talking about is your position that large groups of people should not be allowed to form unions. You’re the one advocating that the government set limits on what people can do in order to make things better for the government.
Think about this. If it was 1981 and we were in Poland, I’d be on the side of Lech Walesa and you’d be on the side of Wojciech Jaruzelski.
Indeed, if a volunteer fire department exists, then it wouldn’t be something that needs to be mandated, but if none exists and organizing one seems impractical for some reason, then it’s something that’s necessary - at least in a dense urban area. In more open regions where there may be acres between buildings, I probably wouldn’t consider firefighting to meet the criteria even if no fire department exists.
I work in the same state that **Little Nemo **did and I don’t get a chance to negotiate precisely because I am not in a union. In late 2007/early 2008 the two largest state employee unions in this state negotiated and ratified contracts covering the period for 2007-2008. The legislation authorizing payment of those contract terms included raises every April from 2007-2010 in addition to increments along the salary scale for those who were not making the top salary. As was customary, the legislation included the same raises and increments for management and other non-union employees. Union employees got every one of those raises. Due to the financial crisis, two years of them were withheld for the non-union employees, because the state was not obligated by contract to pay them. The unions negotiated again in 2011. This negotiation was more difficult, and did not provide any raises in 2012 and 2013. Again, we non-union employees got same deal - but we’re ending up with four years without a raise , not two. And it may be more, since the governor can always take away the 2014 and '15 raises . Pretty soon I’m going to demote myself.
And by the way, even though the state doesn’t have to pay me according to the pay scale that was imposed by fiat , it is still illegal for me to strike.
What in the world gives you the idea that union employees can’t be fired? They often aren’t , but that’s a different issue. In my experience, (and I’ve worked in unionized government environments for over 20 years) those who deserve to be fired but aren’t keep their jobs because some level of management either didn’t have the will to fire them or didn’t follow the proper procedures.
I have a huge problem with the idea that people shouldn’t be allowed to leave their job. But aside from that, what you’re saying here is basically standard operating procedure now. As far as strikes go, most contracts have language making it illegal to strike during the term of the contract. Strikes really only happen once the contract has expired, and no new deal has been reached at the negotiation table. So the workers strike to put pressure on management to make a good deal. That’s why you see tactics like sick-outs.
And most contracts with these critical public sector unions have rules against sick-outs. When it happens, the unions are very careful not to leave a paper trail or evidence that can be used in a court of law to prove that they called a sick-out.
Ah. Management rigorously enforcing terms favorable to them is how the world is supposed to work. Labor rigorously enforcing terms favorable to them is “gaming the system”.
You really expect this argument to be taken seriously? :dubious:
I actually spoke to that. Those are cherry picked professions AND I also noted that of the jobs that pay shit in both the public and private sectors, such as cashiers, there’s a shitload more of them to be had in the private sector. How is IT pay in both worlds? How about doctors, lawyers, engineers, executives, etc?
The makeup of the public and private sectors hasn’t drastically switched in the past 20 years. Uncle Sam didn’t nationalize WalMart, Target, K-Mart, McDs, and Burger King, to the best of my knowledge.
The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics confirms that the wages for government workers in these professions and many others are higher than wages for non-government workers, and that’s not even mentioning the pensions and other benefits. Is the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics a bunch of liars? Do you have a better source of data which contradicts what the BLS says?
Do you have contracted hours though?
Teacher contracts specify what times you have to be on duty e.g. 7am-3:30pm on the listed 184 days out of the year.
As for the public vs. private debate, there are 51 different licensing requirements. I was basing my statement on the states I’m familiar with
I was refuting claims that teachers had some special hardship, the fact that you are forced to work more than 1,472 is because your Unions are ineffectual or are negotiating in bad faith. I would suggest you may want to consider recall vote.
Unions in their current form have a vested interest in protecting the union over the workers, that is my main issue with them.
I may have been unclear but the district in which we had to work unpaid outside of contract hours (and IANAL but I think both sides need to abide by a contract) was the one without a union because everyone who mentioned they were thinking of forming a union was fired immediately for cause (so no unemployment or pay).