Isn’t “topping off” illegal? Every pump I see now has a sign saying something like that…
In addition to the elderly/disabled reasons mentioned, I understood (from when I worked and kept a car in NJ) that the independently owned gas stations have also lobbied intensely to keep the full-service requirement. I’m not exactly sure what all the reasons are, but apparently they believe that if they had to go to self-serve, they’d be lunch for the oil companies, Wal-Mart, and other large gas retailers. To me it seems odd - you’d think they’d save more by reducing the number of employees.
There is topping it off and topping it off.
Topping it off that the signs forbid to my understanding it to shut off the pump and try and get that last little bit of gas without paying for it.
Topping it off like gruvetheory is talking about means is trying to make the sale come out to a nice even amount like $14 so as to make giving change easier.
Green Bean what re tooling would be needed if the law was repealed? How is a selfserve pump different than a non selfserve pump?
Oh, ok. See, I figured it meant that you shouldn’t add that teeny bit more in there because of the risk that it’ll spill all over the place.
Both practices I outlined run the risk of spilling gas. gruvetheory is certainly upset because of that reason. The guys in Jersey were probably breaking some kind of regulation.
Currently, my understanding of NJ pumps is that they are pretty much independent machines, electronics-wise. Each one measures how much gas you’ve pumped, and keeps recalculating the price, and most have a place where you can tell it to stop itself at a certain dollar value, and I suppose they all send some info to a central computer to track all the sales, but that’s all.
A self-serve pump has a lot more than that. First, it won’t start pumping until it gets authorization, either from you putting your credit card into the pump (which involves lot of high-tech communications with the credit card companies) or by the booth lady giving her okay. Then, after you’re done, there’s more two-way communications between the pump and the booth, or the pump and the modem, involving paying.
I pay a lot by credit card in NJ, and I don’t recall ever seeing the attendant put my card into the pump. Probably because then I’d have to get out of the car to enter the PIN. He always brings it to the office and comes back with a receipt for me to sign.
My guess is that smart pump-manufacturers are making dual mode pumps for NJ so that the switchover will be easier when it comes. But even so, I’m confident that there are a lot of stations that are pushing their luck with the older models, not wanting to spend extra money on a gamble. Who can be sure if NJ will ever get self-service?
Topping off is generally not allowed because it interferes with the vapor recovery system on the nozzle. Everytime you do it, the ozone cries.
The only place I’ve ever seen people pump their own gas in Jersey is on military bases. The law doesn’t apply on military ground I guess.
dantheman, you’re right; “no topping off” laws were passed to prevent air pollution from spilled gasoline. In addition, topping off with vapor-recovery nozzles can cause that system to malfunction.
I don’t know if the “turning off the pump” type of topping off is in fact illegal, but if it is, it’s just theft.
The great thing about the self-serve rather than the full-serve pumps is that if I’m paying with a credit or debit card I’ll just do it until the pump stops (it seems to stop with room to spare, to avoid that topping off); doesn’t matter to me then if it’s $14.93 or $15.00 even. And as said earlier, you certainly can’t count on an attendant to do this; they’ll pump till it hits $15.00.
When I worked on an ambulance, that used diesel, we used to stop all up and down the garden state parkway and along rt 55 and most of the stations had self service diesel fuel.
It is funny that you think that someone putting the gas into your car is somehow retrograde. You still need a person to do it, unlike the bowling alley case where a machine can do it now, so I don’t see the big deal about having you or someone else pump the gas. As for the tipping thing, why do so many people seem to be bothered by it? is it the same case with waiters, bellboys and other service providers?
Well, to me it’s not really a service - they’re two feet from me, pressing buttons I could press. Why would I tip them for this? Now, I understand that if it’s really crappy out (snow, rain, sleet) and the poor guy has to pump it for me, sure he deserves something - but what about those times when I pull up to the full-serve station in the pouring rain and no attendant comes out anyway?
My post got lost!
I was responding to someone who asked me what I meant when I said that switching to self-serve would require “re-tooling.” I’m sorry for not being entirely clear. I meant that the payment systems would have to be retooled, not the pumps necessarily. Now, an attendant takes your money or card, and brings you your change or slip. If we went self-serve, we’d have to have pay-at-pump systems and/or the system where the cashier in the building knows how much you owe. Otherwise, you’d have to have attendants hanging around just to do the money–which probably wouldn’t result in much of a labor savings.
It’s not that I think it’s retrograde, if I know what that means, but that the idea of the government mandating that you cannont perform a simple service like this on your own car is just silly. It’s the classic stereotype of meddlesome government in action.
My analogy with pin monkeys was because I was assuming it was a jobs thing. Others have since posted that it’s a Gray Panthers thing, so I’ll change that. Next the NJ government will mandate that a grocery store attendant must carry your groceries out to your car - you can’t do it yourself.
You don’t have to have a pay-at-pump system for self-service; in the early days of self-service, existing pumps were used. You would go to the station and find the last purchase still on the pump, the guy with the key would come and reset the pump, and then you’d fill up. You would then pay with cash or a credit card, same as always.
Of course, people will find it’s more convenient to buy from stations with new equipment that streamlines this process, (like electronically switched pumps, pay-at-pump card readers, etc.) but those people will find themselves paying more for gas, at least at first.
I am quite sure that the NJ pumps already send the cost of the gas and how much was pumped to a central place in the business now. The business operators would need that with or without self serve in order to keep track of how much gas they had etc how much was sold. I just don’t see what expensive retooling is needed also it is not like full service would be banned it is just most people would not want to pay extra for gas just to have somebody pump it for them.
Point well taken CurtC, and I agree with you on the government intervention issue.
I would also like to make a point about my earlier remark about the tipping. Since it is a government regulation that someone has to perform this service (and I do think it is a service), and you could not get the gas otherwise or go to a different establishment, I no longer think you should tip attendants, unless you feel like it. In a restaurant, for example, it is customary to tip, but a) there are other options (self-serve cafeterias, for example), and b) there is no government regulation stating that plates must be carried to a table by another person, so a gratuity is warranted in case you are satisfied with the service.
Therefore, I agree with the “no tipping unless it’s snowing really bad” position.
[BTW, welcome to the board, lothos2002!]
Thank you dantheman. (I know these kind of posts are frowned upon by the moderators, but you are the first one to welcome me, so thanks again)