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The women have already been sentenced, and then the church calls for mercy. :rolleyes: I suppose it should be no big surprise that the church is making an empty gesture; that’s their stock-in-trade, after all.
Wow, that’s harsh. I have to agree with this:
You can lead a horse to water…
Do you honestly think that “we” could have made Russia a different country? How?
I don’t think you now what that term meant. Cold War. All this means that Russia is going to become more and more isolated from the rest of the world.
You like this question (or similar questions). As I’ve done in the past, I’ll answer again : me.
This is not primarily a legal issue. It’s a moral and political one. What kind of action is morally legitimate when facing some level of political oppression? That’s obviously is going to be a matter of individual opinion, both about what actions are morally permissible and about the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of Putin’s rule.
OK. I’ll grant you that (although I’m not sure that they actually trespassed)
A trial is also about, for instance, delivering a sentence, at which point mitigating circumstances can be a factor. Also, we know what they did. But we don’t know how their actions could be qualified under Russian law. Here again, an effective defense can make a difference. Maybe it’s even arguable that they didn’t commit any crime, for all I know. I don’t know what the defense could state, but surely, you’re not going to tell me that whether or not you can have a proper defense is irrelevant once you’ve admitted to have done such or such action.
Besides, again, that’s not primarily a dry legal issue. That’s about how the court system works in Russia. Especially in cases involving people who look more and more like the Soviet era dissidents. That’s about a state machinery which actually is in this case relatively “lenient” when compared to what happened to more serious opponents.
Frankly, when you sentence kids to several years of work camp for singing a politically irreverent song in a church, it’s quite a big hint that something is really rotten in the kingdom (not that we needed this case to know it, of course).
100 years? Good luck with that. :rolleyes: That’s beyond ridicule.
Take notice? Probably. Care the slighest bit? Of course not. When did Putin display the slightest tendancy to change his ways as a result of external pressures? He takes pride in not doing so, at the contrary.
And Madonna? To plagiarize one of his famous predecessors : “Madonna? How many divisions?”
Well, just wait until Lady Gaga has her say. Then Putin will start shaking in his boots!
If Pussy Riot got two years, what does this topless Ukrainian who used a chainsaw to cut down a crucifix deserve?
Link NSFW (bare boobies/non OSHA-approved safety precautions):
(Copy/Paste above broken link in browser. And if, like me, you’re worried about watching a self-scalping about to take place, rest assured that she somehow manages to NOT hurt herself.)
Unfortunately the protest seems more than just a bit misguided when you consider that:
In other topless Ukrainian blondes protesting the Russian Orthodox Church news, there’s also this.
One word: OW
No, there is not in fact any way to protest against Putin without “landing your ass in jail,” which is sort of the point.
I don’t see the miscarriage of justice.
They broke the law. YOU don’t get to decide if their hooliganism (which seemed pretty fucking disrespectful to the church they were in) sprang from religious hatred. It is clear that they aren’t really big fans of the church and they practically shat on the alter.
You don’t seem to be paying attention: they aren’t big fans of the church acting as Putin’s shills. I’ll wait here while you search (in vain) for any quotes from them that says they just don’t like the church.
What in the world is with all the posters demanding respect for the Russian legal system and the Orthodox Church, of all things? Where do you people come from? Besides Russia, I guess.
Huh? Me, I’m from Sweden. How is that relevant exactly?
Also: Remember the Danish Muhammed cartoons?
Now imagine that instead of publishing his cartoon in a local rag in the untamed wilds of Buttfuck, Jutland, the cartoonist would have marched right into one of the holiest mosque in all of Islam, say Masjid al-Haram or Al-Aqsa, and spray-painted that shit all over the mihrab.
That’s the level of offensiveness here. Not for you, of course, but for many of the world’s 150,000,000 Russian-Orthodox Christians.
Yes. Not gonna post a link to the video, though, for obvious reasons.
Oh and then there was the time they staged an orgy in a public museum. For some reason, that “protest” failed to spark a new Russian revolution, too.
Let’s face it: We’re talking G.G. Allin-level stuff here. At least that guy wrote a couple of sweet tunes.
America, where I expect my legal system and rights under law to be respected while I’m at home. When I’m abroad I make certain to be respectful of the laws of my host country. I don’t get to carry an America bubble with me wherever I go. Things aren’t the same everywhere, and rights are enforced by the government regardless of whatever pretty speech in the UN might state. They aren’t external, eternal, or given by a non-existent deity. I’m not a Russian legal scholar, so I’m not certain what rights and laws Russian citizens enjoy on a regular basis. However the Constitution States:
Bolding mine.
Apparently in Russia, certain kinds of speech are limited in their constitution itself and not just in state or federal laws like we have over here. Now I agree with you that Pussy Riot’s performance was politically rather than religiously motivated, but that doesn’t mean that it might not meet the criteria for hate speech under Russian law. Frankly, that is all the law cares about. We’ve seen that a million times in our own country where overly broad laws are used inappropriately to convict people who technically meet the criteria for a transgression. Think of zero tolerance laws for example.
This is an overreach by the Russian government, but it’s hardly an egregious transgression of their own constitution. That being the case, I can’t muster up a whole lot of outrage over a harsh conviction for a shitty punk band who desecrated a church to make a (sort-of) political point. There is a difference between respecting a government’s autonomy and approving of it in total. I don’t approve of how Putin strong arms the media, and I don’t approve of the church acting on his behalf. However, I’m not a Russian. It isn’t my country, my laws, my cultural heritage being disrespected, or a simple cut and dried case of an innocent, peaceful protester being carried off to the gulag.
Orthodox Russian deacon willingly defrocked over Pussy Riot.
I really don’t think that martyring three young women was the smartest move for Putin’s government to make, but it seems that the authoritarian streak in Russia goes deep:
(bolding mine)
I wonder: what does the ROC actually teach their congregation about Jesus and his life? :dubious:
Not to make sweeping statements about protests that won’t go anywhere?
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Which begs the question: how was she convicted in the first place?
Color me shocked – shocked – that the justice system in Russia is not up to our standards.