Q about 12 Monkeys (spoiler)

[SPOOFE]

Gr8Kat…

: If the “scientists” represent the ruling class, and they like to keep it that way, then why would they go back in time to risk messing it up?

To get a pure strain of the virus back to the future, so they can make a cure, so they can be in the ruling class AND still be able to leave their little caves.

[RealityChuck]

Assuming that the cruel treatment of Cole translates into an indifference to the horrible fate of the billions affected by the virus is ludicrous.

Not at all. They were indifferent to Cole, so what makes you think they weren’t indifferent to everyone else?

If someone did to you what they did to Cole, would you trust them? Would you believe everything they said about their own motivations? Or would you automatically mistrust them?

Tell me why you feel we can trust those people. Then you might have a case.

And interpreting the “insurance” line at the end to mean that she was there to ensure that the virus was spread doesn’t hold up.

You’re technically correct in the difference between “insure” and “ensure” and I never argued she said “ensurance.” But surely you’ve see the term “insurance” used to mean “to make sure nothing goes wrong.” (“Why are you carrying that gun to the meeting?” “Insurance.”) That’s clearly the meaning here (unless you want to take the literal meaning that she works in the insurance industry – an interesting interpretation, but not relevant here).

So if she’s there for “insurance,” she’s there either to 1) ensure they get a sample, or 2) ensure the virus spreads. You can argue either way, but that gets down to determining their motivations. And since they were NEVER shown to be behaving in a benevolent manner, it’s hard to make a case that they were being benevolent.

What about this: If the “scientists” represent the ruling class, and they like to keep it that way, then why would they go back in time to risk messing it up? Not doing anything would be the best way to maintain status quo. If you like things just the way they are, and you find a time machine, wouldn’t it be more logical to smash it than to send people back and forth to potentially mess it up?

That is a good point. But, remember, what happened in the past HAD to happen. Cole was in the past, so they had to send him back. And they sent back one of their own to make sure Cole didn’t mess things up. (Read Fritz Leiber’s “Try and Change the Past” to see how this sort of situation can play out.) If Cole had somehow stopped the spread, the scientist could take over (and that wouldn’t have changed the past – the virus would have spread and the change in the mechanism would have been irrelevant since no one knew what it was).

[Montfort]

*Originally posted by Number Six *
**The simplist explanation is usually the correct one. In this case, the simplist explanation is that she was there to complete the mission Cole was originally given, namely to collect a pure sample of the virus. Cole’s purpose was to lead the scientists to the pure sample, which he eventually did. **

And Terry Gilliam films are oh-so-simple. :rolleyes:

[Daniel_Sugar]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RealityChuck *
If they are benevolent, why do they keep everyone in cages and torture Cole? Do you really think their actions toward him are the actions of people who just want the best? Or are they more like those of a totalitarian dictatorship intent on keeping their power?QUOTE]

Cole was in a cage because he was a prisoner, wasn’t he? That’s part of why he was picked–he’s expendable. As for him flopping around doing this or that, by the end, he might have still been acting on his mission, but he also had a very personal stake in events taking place and he would try to protect that. I know if I hooked up with Madeline Stow, I’d say, “Screw the mission. I’m outta here.”

[Ike_Witt]

After more thought, I think that the scientists were trying to stop the plague or at least find a cure. The problem is that they couldn’t. For what ever reason, even with their ability to travel through time, the course of having the virus released was set.
Other Gilliam movies feature characters who are caught up in something that they can not control (Sam Lowry, Kevin and Cole). The scientists may have sent everybody back in an attempt to stop the virus before long. Also, since almost nothing is shared as to the nature of the future society, it is unfair to say that the scientists were actually in charge. For all we know there are several thriving underground cities. It was stated that Cole could help return people to the surface.
Of course I also see Gilliams movies as questioning the nature of reality (as experienced by the central characters). In Brazil, how long was Sam in that chair? Was he always a prisoner of MoI? Was Tuttle a fantasy construct? Was Cole really a time traveler?
The fact that these points can be argued ad naseum reflects the quality of the story and quality of Gilliams’ direction.