The ending of 12 Monkeys

Cafe Society
1

This has been bugging me for years, so I might as well ask. At the end of this great film, Dr Peters boards the plane with the virus in his briefcase, making stops all over the world to release it. Dr Jones, the woman who sent Cole on his time-travel mission, sits down next to him, and introduces herself as being in insurance.

What happens next?

Either

a. she stops him from releasing the virus

or

b. she makes sure the virus still gets released

I always assumed it was a, but there was always something so sinister about her, especially in that scene, which made me think that she had ulterior motives. Likewise, just what was she going to do to STOP him?

2

The virus has already been released at that point. (Recall the security guard who inhaled it.)

She is only there to get samples for research.

3

Another possibility was that her presense was supposed to tell us (the audience) that Cole really was insane - he imagined a life in the future where he time traveled back to our present. There were other scenes where we saw Cole incorporate things he had saw into his “memories”. This was just the final proof - she wasn’t some scientist from the future, she was an insurance woman he happened to see in the airport.

4

The movie definitely established that there was no chance of stopping the plague. I think it made it a better movie to do that. I’m not against stories where the hero mucks about in the past to set right what once went wrong (as any fan of the Quantum Leap, the show I nicked that phrase from, could tell). But not every time-travel story has to go down that road.

5

Well heck, I never noticed that was her. I’m going to have to watch it again. (no hardship)

I think it is testament to the quality of film that multiple endings and explanations are possible. I love ambiguity and it would diminish my enjoyment if it is was all laid out for me.
Is Cole mad? Which reality does Cobb inhabit? Does Keyser Soze exist? all of them best left hanging I reckon.

6

I think that was one fo the hypothesis(es?) I had when I saw the movie, but the first one was that the scientist was part of the 12 Monkeys.

7

There’s no right answer. They’re all perfectly valid explanations; that’s the point. The movie is meant to challenge the viewer with a story that is compelling, but where the nature of what is happening simply can’t be conclusively proven one way or the other.

All the hypotheses presented so far are equally true.

8

Amen to that, so much harder to frame a perfect question than a perfect answer.

9

I just saw this again on New Year’s eve. It never gets old.
I’ve always thought that this scene shows how the plague plays out: Dr. Peters travels around the world releasing his virus. One the first leg of the trip, he sits next to some “nobody” insurance agent who happens to survive, and then becomes a “Scientist” when 90% of humanity has been wiped out. It’s pretty clear that the scientists in the future are incompetent - they send Cole back to the wrong time period several times.

Also, I’m convinced that Cole is insane (probably by witnessing someone get shot, when he was a little kid), and has dreamed the whole thing. But, that’s a different topic…

10

There is independent evidence that Cole is actually a time traveller, though, including the World War One-era photograph and the fact that he knew how the “kid down the well” story was going to end.

11

Except that there is objective evidence that Cole has travelled from the future to the past, i.e. the presence of a WWI bullet in his leg, disappearing (once from inside a locked cell), his knowledge of Kathryn’s phone message to the answering service, et cetera. It is safe to say that Cole’s memories of the future are real and represent things that are occurring outside of his perception.

The question of what the “insurance woman” was doing is ambiguous. Although she and the other scientist/leaders tell Cole that they’re looking for an unmutated version of the virus to create an inoculation, neither Cole nor the audience can take what they say at face value, as they clearly have their own agenda, which appears to include sending Jose to keep Cole on track trying (and failing) to kill Dr. Peters. It may be that they have previously tried to stop the distribution of the virus and had negative consequences, or they are competing with other groups, or just want to keep history on track so they maintain their positions at the top of the food chain. In the end, the story is an ouroboros loop; everything that Cole discovers about the Army of the 12 Monkeys is set in motion by Railly’s satiric message to what she thinks is a carpet cleaning company. Cole is not only a puppet of the future scientists, but he is also a puppet of his own actions; what he thinks of as free will–escaping into the past from the future–is actually just his fate, to be played out recursively.

Stranger

12

Sure, unless you believe (like I do) that the whole movie is his fantasy.

Gilliam loves these ambiguous stories - was Brazil all the fantasy of Sam Lowry during his torture?

13

He also had the physical bullet he was shot with in his leg transported through time with him. If any of the movie can be considered real and not an extended dream he was a time traveller.

I find it a bit strange that there are so many theories about The 12 Monkeys as none of them make any sense unless you’re willing to accept 90% of the movie is in Cole’s head which is fine but then it makes speculating at all pointless as it’s just some guy’s dream. It’s really a pretty straightforward time travel movie otherwise (with some trippy bits thrown in).

14

I think it’s clear that the woman is along just in case Cole managed to stop the virus. She was there to insure it gets released.

Why? Many reasons.

  1. At no point are the scientists shown as anything but nasty characters. They torture Cole, keep their people in cages, and lie to him about his mission. For them to be doing anything kindly would be like Osama bin Ladin showing up on an Israeli’s doorstep and saying, “I’m here to help you.”

  2. Lying to Cole. The press clippings on the wall when they interrogate him show articles about Dr. Goines. Why? The only reason to keep them would be that they suspect Goines. Yet they never mention Goines’s lab to Cole, even with “Oh, by the way, while you’re checking out the 12 Monkeys, you might as well check out Goines, too.”

  3. There is no reason to trust anything the scientists say. (Remember – they were put in power because of the plague and obviously benefited greatly from it.).

  4. Maybe the past can be changed. Even internally, this is likely – why choose Cole? Why not just let him rot? No, they send him back because, in the past, he died in the airport. If they don’t send him back, he doesn’t die and maybe they don’t come to power.

  5. What is the scientists doing when portrayed in the plane? She is drinking champagne. And why do people drink champagne? To celebrate. So she is figuratively toasting Cole’s death. This does not fit into any image of their doing this all for the betterment of humanity.

The signs are clear that the ending points to #2. To choose one is pure optimism not backed up by any portrayal of that woman or her colleagues in the film. They say one thing, but everything indicates that they are lying.

15

Ah, I’d forgotten the kid in the well, which is what convinces Kathryn that he’s not insane.

Stranger

16

Sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever.
There is no Temporal Paradox here. If the plague has already happened, there’s no reason to send anyone back in time to make sure it happens.

17

Apparently, though, there is some speculation that Kathryn herself is just one of Cole’s delusions.

Of course, at that point, one may as well speculate that every movie might just be an elaborate dream of one of the characters. When Harry Met Sally might just be one of Carrie Fisher’s drug trips, for example.

If so, I’ll have what she’s having.

18

Oh yeah, it’s been a long time since I saw it, but what you describe is exactly how I understood it at the time. That the future scientist happens to share the same plane.

19

Just a minor hijack, but I hope it will be forgiven…

I am not a Sci Fi person at all, and almost never watch movies or TV shows that deal with the general Science Fiction genre in any context. (specifically looking to expand my horizons, I recently gave two Sci-Fi network TV series a shot–FlashForward and The Event–but ended up continuing to watch mainly just to pick apart every little plot point and to just make fun of how poorly they were thought out)

That said, years ago I watched 12 Monkeys in the theater (by myself, with no distractions) and I was absolutely spellbound by the film. For some reason, (most likely the ambiguous nature of the entire movie, especially the ending) that movie has taken up space in my head like very few other movies (of any genre) ever have. After leaving the theater I felt like I had injested some recreational, mind-expanding substance (something that I had a fair bit of real-life experience with). For days afterwards, I played the film back over and over in my head. I have watched it at least 15 or 20 times since then, always coming away with a little something new. It is certainly one of the 10 best movies I have ever seen, and the only Sci-Fi film I have ever really cared about.

Anyone have any suggestions for other quality Sci-Fi films that I should check out?

I haven’t seen almost any of them, even most of the acknowledged classics (Blade Runner, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind and 2001 Space Odyssey have all been recommended in the past, but I have yet to check them out) so any movies that you think would have some of the qualities that make 12 Monkeys so riviting would be much-welcomed suggestions.

Finally, just as a final point, I have to say that I don’t think I have ever seen a woman in ANY role, in ANY movie look as stunning and ethereal as Madeleine Stowe in 12 Monkeys. There is something about her and her performance that is almost hard for me to watch. Madeleine Stowe always looks great in any context, but her role as Dr. Katherine Railey is one of the most compelling things I have ever seen.

(One last thing—though he was excellent, besides his bit role in Thelma & Louise, 12 Monkeys is the only time I have ever seen Brad Pitt act. I don’t know why, but even though I think he did a stellar job in 12 Monkeys, I have avoided seeing any of his movies since then. If there is something else he has done that is too good to pass up, please let me know)

20

I’ve always taken the ending as one more ironic coincidence. The scientists have no way of knowing that they’ve been barking up the wrong tree, going after the Army of the 12 Monkeys instead of Dr. Goines’ assistant, Dr. Peters.

And as a final twist, if only she knew, that scientist had been in a position to prevent the virus from being spread beyond the security guard in the aeroport.

It is something I have always loved about this film - that the ending is different for everyone who sees it.

Are any of you familiar with the Tom Stoppard play ‘Arcadia’? There is a similar theme where two timelines are presented simultaneously - and only the audience can tell that the present day characters have the wrong end of the stick. They have most of the pieces to the puzzle, but the conclusion they’ve drawn is completely off. Like 12 Monkeys, an outstanding piece.