Q: Courts & Murder Across State Lines

[Jinx]

Recently, there’s a case in MD and DE of a person accused of murder in both States. IIRC, MD decided there was not enough evidence to the try the person. However, this person is going to tried in DE.

I don’t get this. Shouldn’t such a situation be brought into a Federal court? And, if MD had tried this person, does this mean a person could be tried for the same crime twice? - Jinx

[M.Meursault]

@Jinx

Recently, there’s a case in MD and DE of a person accused of murder in both States. IIRC, MD decided there was not enough evidence to the try the person. However, this person is going to tried in DE.

I don’t get this. Shouldn’t such a situation be brought into a Federal court? And, if MD had tried this person, does this mean a person could be tried for the same crime twice? - Jinx

I don’t know about the particulars of the case. However, if part of the crime or crimes occurred in DE, then they could be tried there for the whole criminal enterprise. Maybe. Depending on the laws in each place.

It is hard, though, to accurately determine what is happening here without more information. Do you have a link handy?

[Jinx]

@M. Meursault

I don’t know about the particulars of the case. However, if part of the crime or crimes occurred in DE, then they could be tried there for the whole criminal enterprise. Maybe. Depending on the laws in each place.

It is hard, though, to accurately determine what is happening here without more information. Do you have a link handy?

I’ll see if I can find a link. But, are you saying these “over the state line” events are not automatically sent to a Federal court? - Jinx

[Jinx]

@Jinx

I’ll see if I can find a link. But, are you saying these “over the state line” events are not automatically sent to a Federal court? - Jinx

Here’s the link:
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20060407/NEWS/60407008

This web address should be all one contiguous line…

• Jinx

[Random]

@Jinx

I’ll see if I can find a link. But, are you saying these “over the state line” events are not automatically sent to a Federal court? - Jinx

I don’t know if he’s saying that, but I will.

[ENugent]

Indeed, I remember discussing in Criminal Law a situation (don’t remember whether it was hypothetical or real) where the criminal stood in Alabama and fired a shot into Georgia, killing someone. IIRC, Alabama gave him immunity if he would cooperate in something or other, and then Georgia took all the information he gave Alabama under immunity and prosecuted his ass. Totally legit.

[RealityChuck]

Murder is a state crime, not a Federal one (with some exceptions, like murder on Federal territory).

Also, he’s not being tried twice for the same crime: he’s potentially being tried for two different murders, one in MD and the other in DE. Each person you kill is a separate crime.

Federal law applies to interstate commerce, but in no way is murder considered commerce. If the person had robbed people, or swindled them, in different states, he also could be tried in each state by charging him with the crime that took place in the state.

[M.Meursault]

@Jinx

I’ll see if I can find a link. But, are you saying these “over the state line” events are not automatically sent to a Federal court? - Jinx

I think the misunderstanding is that many Federal crimes involve doing something “over state lines,” such as driving a stolen vehicle or taking women into another state for lewd acts. As such, it’s easy to assume that doing anything across state lines, like a killing spree (as in this case), would automatically be a Federal crime. This is generally not the case for murder, though; it’s typically a state crime.

The guy in this case was probably moved to Delaware for judicial convenience. Maybe there were more witnesses to the crimes in Delaware, or Delaware has the death penalty and Maryland doesn’t, or something.

[Campion]

Having looked at some of the news articles, it appears that the defendant in question was a spree killer, killing four or so people in one long arc, during a relatively short time period. Some of those people happened to be in Delaware and some in Maryland.

As has been pointed out, committing a crime while crossing state lines (or crossing state lines during the commission of a crime) isn’t sufficient to make something a federal crime. The federal government’s ability to criminalize certain acts is limited by the constitution. Typically, Congress will rely on the commerce clause to justify making otherwise state crimes federal ones. (See, for example, this case about the federal carjacking statute.)

I haven’t seen anything to explain what’s going on with the guy in question, but I think that there may just be better evidence in one state versus the other. Note that Maryland cannot try him for crimes committed in Delaware and vice versa; unless Maryland can show that the crime was committed in Maryland’s jurisdiction, Maryland can’t simply “take care of it” for Delaware.

[gabriela]

@M. Meursault

I think the misunderstanding is that many Federal crimes involve doing something “over state lines,” such as driving a stolen vehicle or taking women into another state for lewd acts. As such, it’s easy to assume that doing anything across state lines, like a killing spree (as in this case), would automatically be a Federal crime. This is generally not the case for murder, though; it’s typically a state crime.

The guy in this case was probably moved to Delaware for judicial convenience. Maybe there were more witnesses to the crimes in Delaware, or Delaware has the death penalty and Maryland doesn’t, or something.

I once autopsied a victim who was kidnapped in one state, driven to our state, and murdered. Before the kidnapping, the assailant murdered his father in the first state. Each state prosecuted him for the murder that occurred within its boundaries, and the Feds prosecuted him for the kidnapping across state lines.

IANAL. Open to correction.

Gabriela

[Random]

@gabriela

I once autopsied a victim who was kidnapped in one state, driven to our state, and murdered. Before the kidnapping, the assailant murdered his father in the first state. Each state prosecuted him for the murder that occurred within its boundaries, and the Feds prosecuted him for the kidnapping across state lines.

IANAL. Open to correction.

Gabriela

IAAL, and no correction is necessary. I’m not surprised by this at all.

I’ll clarify one point, though. The Federal basis for prosecuting kidnapping derives from a specific Federal statute addressing kidnapping, not from any general legal rule transferring jurisdiction whenever there’s an interstate crime. In fact, it’s likely that either state involved could have charged the defendant here for kidnapping/unlawful restraint if it wanted to.

[astro]

Yeah… this is in my little burg and yes … Davis was a bit pissed off

“For me personally, as well as professionally, this is a most difficult decision,” he said. “However, an objective review of the laws of both states compels me to believe that Norman should first be tried in Delaware.”

With the charges dismissed, Ruark said Norman had a hearing Thursday and waived his extradition rights as a fugitive from Delaware. Ruark said Norman will probably be in the custody of Delaware authorities by Monday.

Ruark said he hopes his office will continue to stay involved in the case and will re-indict Norman should they still need to try him in Maryland.

“We’ll be there,” he said.

Ruark also vowed to lobby Maryland lawmakers to change the state’s current criminal sanity laws, so a situation such as the Norman case does not happen again.

“One state, seven miles north of where I sit now, has the law to address the exact situation that I now face,” he said. “Maryland, however, does not. I call upon the governor, the state legislators as well as the citizens of Maryland to change the law of Maryland to conform to other surround states, including Delaware.”

Delaware Attorney General Carl Danberg confirmed that the case is being moved from Maryland to Delaware.

He said he could not speak for Maryland authorities as to why they decided to drop the charges in Maryland and let Delaware take the case first.

“They haven’t spoken with me directly,” he said Thursday. “But we do consider it a capital case in Delaware. It is death penalty-eligible and the decision as to whether or not to seek the death penalty will be made at the highest levels of the Department of Justice.”

Danberg said he did not have any information on when Norman would be transferred to Delaware.

[Chronos]

Granted that there is no Federal statute concerning cross-state murders (like the hypothetical with the bullet crossing the line). However, Congress does have the Constitutional authority that it could, in principle, pass such a statute, correct? It just hasn’t done so yet.