You could use Helicopters.
You can lower food, Water, flashlights, medical supplies in water proof containers.
Better yet you can find a nearby dry spot and drop the supplies.
They make very large, heavy duty bags for asbestos removable and watertight storage. These are either tape sealed or basically “Ziploc” like.
I’ve used them in both Navy and in Asbestos removal.
Due to the chaos, you would not lower by sling as you might loose the sling if people try to hold on.
You **cannot ** readily do a WWII style air drop by parachute, there is a larger logistic issue with these and you cannot aim.
You just have to get the Helicopters there and send **100’s of trucks ** with Fuel and supply for them to relay.
However my experience was only as an observer. The crew got Helicopters fired up rapidly as I was helping to get a (search & rescue) boat into the water. They were in the air faster than we got the boat lowered and fired up.
We also used Helicopters for unreps. Bringing supplies between boats. You know things like food.
In other words, you don’t have any idea–you’re just complaining. How do you expect the suppliers to continue providing supplies after they’re knocked out of action?
I think Sequent is asking very good questions that most people in this thread are skirting because they are hung up on the word “racism”.
It’s like reasonably bright minds have turned into scrapple all of a sudden.
Folks, how hard is it to provide a fleet of helicopters to deposit loads of food and water? HOW FUCKING HARD IS IT?
I’m no logistical expert by any means, but so far no one has credibly explained why loading up a few dozen planes with supplies that could be found at Costco represents such an unsummountable challenge.
Well, the implication is that it was racism, somehow, that caused all the options to be ignored. However, we have lots of evidence that FEMA was hamstrung by political games that would have made it just as incapable of responding to a similar disaster in the (mostly white) Pacific Northwest.
The government should have stockpiled goods and available manpower and transportation to mitigate this disaster. They did not. However, this appears to be the result of “privatization” and patronage appointments and budget shifting that occurred outside the realm of realizing that the first call for such a tremendous effort would happen to be in a primarily black city.
How long does it take to drive to just outside NO?
From NJ, 1300 miles, 24 hours slow, 18 fast. (I’ve done this in 21 hours in a CRX)
From Houstan, 348 miles, 6 hours driving slow.
From Atlanta 487.5 Miles, 7.5 driving slow. 6 driving fast
So, Its really not that hard to get supplies to New Orleans is it?
First of all - who makes the final decision to use helicopters? The mayor? The governor? DHS? FEMA? The President?
Second - where do you get the helicopters? I’m assuming that the helicopters would be provided by the military/coast guard. But who do you contact (which specific units/bases)? And do they actually have the helicopters (and pilots) to actually do such a mission (because there may be other helicopters doing other missions - like saving/rescuing people).
Third - how many helicopters are needed?
Fourth - what is the load capacity of the helicopters (which has an impact on how many are needed)?
Fifth - once the number of helicopters have been decided on (and where they are to come from), then there’s the matter of where the food and water is coming from. One has to coordinate with those agencies that will be providing the stuff. In addition, those agencies may be relying on others for the supplies (private vendors, etc.).
Sixth - then there the matter of coordinating the movement of the food/water to those places where the helicopters are located. It may mean coordinating the movement of food/water to the bases where the helicopters are initially stantioned (possible, but inefficient). More likely it’s a matter of coordinating the movement of the food/water to staging areas where the helicopters can come in, land, load, and take off with the items). If this is the case, then you have to coordinate this activity with those involved (helicopters, supplying agencies).
Seventh - once the above have been sorted out, then it’s a matter of getting it to the people that need it. While it may be a simple matter of just dropping the stuff out of the helicopters, one runs the risk of creating a situation where peole could be killed or injured by the drop, not to mention the risk of people getting injured or killed over the scramble/rush to get to the supplies - thereby exacerbating the situation on the ground. Especially if you are dropping the stuff where there are large numbers of people.
Eighth - to be effective, you need a contingent of people on the ground that can effectively distribute the food/water to people in a clam and timely manner. This requires relief workers, Guardsmen, police, etc. To do this, you need to coordinate with these people on the ground.
Ninth - most importantly, for all of this activity and coordination to take place, you need 1) a coherent chain of command and 2) an effective means to communicate this to all relevent parties. In New Orleans proper, THERE IS NO WIDESPREAD COMMUNICATION, other than what is being used by the National Guard, police, relief workers (I’m assuming walkie talkies and radio communication with military/national guard units). While this communication can take place outside the area, it needs to be relayed to areas where the communication is limited.
In short, while it might sound easy, getting everything to function as it should is one of command, coordination, and communication.
I dunno. Most of the responses that Sequent has acquired in this thread are split into two troublesome categories. The first are the ones I alluded to above, who are so caught up on the word racism that they can’t get past the first few sentences of the OP in a truly “doth protest too much” fashion. The second category has moved passed the word racism and is attempting (in an embarrassingly lame fashion, I might add) to defend why depositing supplies at NOLA is next to impossible.
So this is my question: leaving the question of race out of it, why are so many reasonably smart people acting as if we are talking about brain surgery here? If it is, in a sense, brain surgery to airlift basic supplies and drop them down to where they are needed, surely someone can explain that better than it has been. 'Cause I certainly don’t understand how it’s all that difficult, and I’ve been paying attention closely.
I understand that there has been shooting and looting and whatnot, but not to the extent that thousands of people must be left to thirst to death because of it. I understand the potential for rioting, but again, not to the extent that thousands must be left to suffer because of the presumption that it will occur it. I understand that stockpiles were not at the ready like they should have been, but I also know that that is a piss poor excuse. Not in a country like ours, where even in Fartbelch, AL there is a Super Walmart or a Costco or a Sam’s.
I just don’t get why people want to stick their head in the sand and act as if everything is progressing as it should. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
And neither does the point that Bricker tried to make to my last post. Everything is reading like gibberish to me.
Not hard to get one truck loaded with supplies and over there, no.
Not hard to get three trucks.
Little hard to get five trucks.
Little harder to get eight trucks.
Twelve trucks are tougher still.
And so forth.
Yeah, a single guy can get in a truck and go.
You seem to believe that this proves a fleet of trucks can also go.
Again I ask: what training or study have you made of logistics? Do you understand that big operations are never put into effect by saying, “OK, everyone, let’s just go!”
POTUS. Certainly, if no one else, once it’s apparent people will start dying before we get there.
Second. POTUS calls the Secretary of Defense for some ideas. “Don, you know anyone with some choppers?”
Third. As many as possible.
Fourth. Who cares? If it can fly and dump, load it up.
Fifth. Pre-positioned in a semi-circle around the city before landfall, according to FEMA.
Sixth. What part of “all hands on deck” don’t you understand? Get the choppers to the food, then the food to the people.
Seventh. Again, we have the choice between doing something, thereby potentially exacerbating the situation, and doing nothing, thereby definitely exacerbating the situtation. It’s a disaster. We’re not going to be able to do it all by the books.
Eight. Not possible until Friday. We have to do what we can NOW.
Ninth. Call up Secretary of Defense again. “Don, can you get me a coherent chain of command with its own communication system? Where would we find that?”
Just because we can make it hard doesn’t mean we have to. Besides, it ends at your first question. If you’re military, and POTUS tells you to get it done ASAP, are you really going to hang around to ask POTUS #2-#8 or are you just going to get it done?
You don’t think it’s strange that the powers-that-be couldn’t come to that decision within a 24 hour span? GS-15’s make bigger decisions than that sitting on the toilet bowl.
Third - how many helicopters are needed?
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How about someone who is convinced that “all is going as well as can be hoped” answer these questions? Do you know the minimum number of helicopters needed to airlift a few hundred cases of bottled water? Little ole silly me ain’t thinking it takes a whole Army fleet to do it, but I could be wrong.
Right, but again, you don’t think it’s strange that it takes days and days for all this coordination to be straightened out? I certainly do.
This is how I envision it in real simple terms. You take a whole bunch supplies, load them into these things called tractor trucks and then you drive those trucks to where the helicopters sit. Then you open the door of the helicopters and you throw as many supplies as you can fit in them. Then the helicopters fly off to NOLA and the supplies are dropped to the ground. Not where the water is, mind you. But somewhere in the vicinity where the Superdome is. You put people in place on the ground to help keep the peace and distribute goods. The helicopters fly off, get restocked, rinse and repeat.
It ain’t brain surgery, in other words.
So the answer is to do practically nothing at all. Gotcha.
And this is a unsummountable challenge how? We got things called satellite phones and walky-talkies.
I’m not seeing why it takes the relevant parties four or five days to become coordinated or discover an effective means of communicating with one another. Not at all.
Just in case I’m being misunderstood here: I’m not saying it’s all easy as pie. What I am saying is that taking this long to get basics over there is not credibly explained by your nine explanations. Sorry.
Who has said that things are proceeding as they should? Nw you are reading into the comments.
The point is that we were not prepared to have a city of 480,000 people (with an additional million or so in the suburbs) suddenly become the bottom of a lake. Preparations were not made in a timely fashion.
The objections are not that it is unrealistic to expect the government to have made plans. The objections are that, since we know that the government already screwed up, it is unrealistic to think that we can do anything useful in an ad hoc fashion.
It is all fine and well to say that the government should have commandeered a couple of traffic copters from Houston and run back and forth to the Little Rock Wal-Mart dropping bottles of Deer Park and Evian on the sufferers at the Convention Center. Howevewr, the reality is that such ad hoc activities actually take away from the greater effort to provide relief to larger numbers of people.
They screwed up. That is a given. But a claim that they should be able to throw something together and just have it happen simply reflects a naive belief that logistics are a simple matter.
I have been quite critical of the government’s role in overall preparedness. We know what most of the facts of that situation are.
I am going to wait until I have the facts regarding availability of transport, supplies, personnel, and communications before I condemn the failures of the people who are now trying to relieve the survivors.
(As an example: most disaster recovery plans presume that most of the control on the ground will be handled by the police. In this case, the police are without communications (their radio system failed and several police stations are under water) and without transporation (several of the police car lots are flooded) and the streets are flooded to the point where the police would need boats–of which they have only a few. So the primary force that the disaster people rely upon is effectively gone. So who do the recovery people ask for directions? (I know, just fly around until you see some people and throw out your load to let them fight over it or surrender it to a gang. It was doing exactly that during various African famine relief efforts that caused the military to back away from that practice because more people were harmed than helped.))
The simple matter is that people are going to die. What are you going to do about it? You’ve got a better idea? Let’s hear it! But if you don’t, and the military needs a few more days to practice its art, then yes–gas up the Charger, we’re hitting the WalMart on the way out of town. We’ll be sure to apologize to the victims on Canal Street for getting in the way of all the other help they’re getting.
Your solution, when asked for an explanation of how you’d make it happen, is that you’d order someone else to make it happen.
You have this incredibly naive belief that if the President orders it, people will leap and make it happen, no matter the possibility of actual compliance. The President can order all he wishes; he cannot make supplies, fuel, transport, and people magically appear in the right quantities at the right time. You think he can.
Funny that Mr. Bush hasn’t used this magical power before: “Secretary Rumsfeld, clear out the insurgents in Iraq!”
Probably the best solution would have been for the President to order Katrina not to hit. Why didn’t he do that, the bastard?