The problem is that Scotland, as an independent entity, doesn’t have an economy, in the sense that EU rules say is needed to join. If a newly independent Scotland had to meet the same criteria as various eastern European countries, it would fail dismally. So, the rules would have to be bent or changed, and that would have consequences for other potential members - and it’s not certain that the EU will do that.
It’s not certain that they won’t, of course, but leaving the UK on the assumption they will seems dangerous.
there is something instructive about a formerly great nation about to saw off its feet based on the xenophobic resentments against the Polish plumbers and nostalgia for its now gone empire. (and reading too many of those vulgar tabloids for the page three busoms and then the political analysis of the same quality as that pretended journalism)
of course in the France there are some very similar things… so far blocked from access to power.
But couldn’t you guys have responded without quoting the huge screed of dumbassery in full? I never understand that, now we have to scroll past it three times to follow the conversation.
It is threads like this that make me feel not quite as bad about the current shitshow going on in the US. Mutual schadenfreude…or something like that.
Quartz, who isn’t for Brexit (yeah, right), also doesn’t cheer for Trump (yeah, right again). He’s a wimp who cannot express his own beliefs. He hides behind “it’s what the people want” BS.
He has this bizarre idea that the GOP was just waiting for Trump to get to two years in office and then they would turn on him in order to get ten years of President Pence.
He’d probably posted about it twenty times at least.
It is purely bonkers to think that GOP could turn on Trump to install Pence, and then Pence would win in 2020.
Oh, it’s not about being dumb, my friend. I’ve encountered some very intelligent people who voted Brexit. Their bullshit detectors are seriously broken, is all.
Like I said, climate change deniers, flat earthers…hollow earthers, even.
Oh, we could, but it would involve reducing ourselves to the level of the Leave campaign and producing weapons grade lies and illegal funding.
Lol, no.
Lol, no.
Legally required, and entirely legitimate. I love how Brexiters moan about this. Like with everything, they attack the message and never the messenger.
Haha, no.
If Leave hadn’t broken the law, and had stuck with a single, coherent prospectus for what Brexit means, instead of promising the earth in a morass of completely contradictory claims and meaningless slogans, and if the press and broadcast media had done its job and called out Brexiter snake oil and unicorn peddling for what it is, rather than letting them mouth off unchallenged, Remain would have won.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Brexiters did work for it rather than devoting their energies to unicorns and blame passing.
Which is funny that you mention, as the EU is leading the world on reducing food waste and creating a circular economy. Brexit breaks the thing that is solving those problems.
This is a lie. EU free movement law has always allowed the UK to restrict criminals and remove them to their home country. The UK is just very lazy in actually doing so.
Lie.
Lie.
:rolleyes:
We’re concerned about much more than pockets, and certainly not only our own. We actually give a shit about others, you see. You should try it sometime.
Show me the big red bus where Leave said ‘we should leave the EU because we should make ourselves poorer and get second jobs because we currently use global resources too much.’
Oh, da.
Haha, the state of this bit. Lie.
Heavens to Betsy, ideas are proposed the very idea that ideas should be floated. It’s enough to make me shudder. Ideas!
Lie.
Oh goodness me, the EU making countries follow the treaty rules that they freely signed up to. The horror. True patriots violate the law, as Brexiters well know.
What, the cartoon super villain organisation that you just made up? Gosh no, that sounds awful. The EU as it actually is is pretty decent though.
So what is it, a tyranny or a talking shop?
And what freedom are you gaining? The experience of the past two years should show all of us that the UK on its own will be utterly, utterly ruined if it tries to take on the big boys. The EU makes Malta as powerful as the US in trade negotiations. The UK will be weaker than Malta in future. That’s freedom, is it?
Excuse me, but what the fuck is that about? You think being shot at in combat makes your bullshit arguments any less detached from reality? Is it not possible for a soldier to be incorrect, somehow, magically?
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. If Leave had campaigned on this prospectus of us deserving hardship to learn some truths, they’d have lost. I wonder why they didn’t? And you claim it has a democratic mandate? Please, my sides.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes, there is a huge difference between “we’d like to reconsider whether we want to stay married or not” and throwing a tantrum in the face of someone who’s been giving you every. Damn. Little. Special. Thing. You wanted… you know, I’ve said it before so my apologies for sounding like a broken record, but the arguments and attitudes of Catexiters and Brexiters have a lot in common, and the legality of it is nowhere to be found in the Catalonian case.
Economy, political system… East Germans didn’t even know what a choice of toilet paper was, much less a choice of political representatives.
For anyone who might be interested in the claim that the “EU zone is nothing but a tarriff barrier designed to keep the produce of 3rd world countries out and denying such nations a chance to improve their own lot in life”, I thought the following might be of interest:
It’s a good article that goes into detail on the various treaties that apply here, and I’d recommend reading it if you thought Casdave’s claim had any substance.
I’m definitely no expert in international trade (I make stuff and check it; others sell and ship it), but AFAICT the biggest advantage of the EU as a trade zone is the simplified paperwork and logistics. That in order to have those advantages we agree to not impose tariffs on each other is kind of secondary. And of course, that we don’t impose tariffs on each other doesn’t mean we automatically impose them on everybody else.
“We have 80% of our legislation decided by a a committee of non-democrats”
Non too surprisingly, this is also incorrect. Let’s start with just what percentage of our law is really set by the EU:
In short, even Vote Leave only claimed 62%, and that’s a blatant misrepresentation. However, there is one even bigger issue with the claim that we’re having 80% of our laws forced upon us:
So, what a bunch of bastards eh: they’re undemocratically forcing us to adopt the votes that 97% of the time we’re democratically voting for.
And, finally, I really have to take a moment to praise this gem
Now, I’m always a huge fan of sanctimonious bollocks but this one goes the extra mile for comedy gold. Casdave’s opinion is far more worthy than those who disagree with him, because he’s been shot at, to protect your freedom…but don’t you go thinking that the freedom he protected means the rank and file should get to have a dissenting opinion on something. Freedom to have a view on a subject and express that view in public, that’s not the freedom he fought for, fuck no.
It is impossible to back up this claim with actual evidence, since it is a hypothetical situation. At the time, I may very well have voted leave if this were the question put, though I probably wouldn’t do so if it were put now.
As above, except I would probably have voted leave both then and no.
This is extremely disingenuous at best.
This however is probably fair and although I was happy with the result, having a referendum was probably a mistake in the first place.
This is factually correct but I don’t think this fact was “a disaster”. It was perhaps a minor inconvenience for people booking foreign holidays. It was quite good for most of the UK stock market.
A fair price to pay for having one’s principles, perhaps? Plus the economy is not (yet) ruined. I suspect it would be damaged in the event of a hard Brexit, but probably not disastrously in the long run.
I’d say the Scottish Nationalists are free to (literally) go fuck themselves if they wish, yes. The last referendum on that subject I think demonstrated that when push comes to shove, Scotland benefits more from the UK than the other way round. The same has yet to be proven in relation to the UK and the EU.
Indeed, which is yet another problem with the way the EU works.
This seems to me rather naive about the history and motivations of EU politics.
That’s right, you just keep on assuming that we are all idiot racists rather than voting leave because of arrogant twats like you.
There is scientific evidence for human-influenced climate change, and the structure of the earth. It is not comparable to economic predictions about an unknown future.
Please don’t tar us all with the same brush. I’m no fan of Quartz (he does seem to be quite knowledgeable about contract bridge, but for me that doesn’t quite redeem his rather strange views on gender, race, and politics in general). Ask me anything and I will do my best to answer.
Thank you for providing useful information rather than just claiming “Lie” without providing an actual counterargument.
Couple of things on this - firstly, for some of us any figure greater than 0% is too high, for me personally I’d probably accept something like 20% if it led to great benefits overall, but clearly it is a) higher than that and b) I don’t believe in the benefits. Secondly, on your last sentence - “we” are not democratically voting for it, our representatives are. And not only are they a long way removed from their electorate, both physically and culturally, they often barely have a mandate due to low turnout at EU elections. Most importantly though, I believe they simply get ground down by the system. How many times do things eventually get accepted because they are just ‘good enough’ and no-one wants to redraft them for a 5th time? That’s what happens with EU laws - many are a compromise between too many competing views that end up serving no-one well, except the lawmakers. IMO.
I tell you it’s just as well that the British government doesn’t involve a system where our representatives vote on issues on our behalf, or else your complaint here would make no sense whatsoever.
