Thank you. The problem with the language issue is that by its very nature it’s very hard for most people concerned to get an honest feel for the other’s position. Francophones discuss about the issue on their side, anglos on their own but there is very little constant dialogue happening. In the end, when decisions are made, it always ends up looking terribly unilateral to either side.
I was back in Montreal this summer and for the 30th anniversary of the French Language Charter, someone on the radio mentioned just how much René Lévesque disliked at first the idea of legifying on language. For those who may not be from Canada, former provincial prime-minister René Lévesque was by far the person most responsible for popularising the independance movement.
I think too many defenders of the French language have often become too attached with the means (bill 101) versus the end (making sure Francophones can find work and get service in their language). However, I will defend them/us against misplaced charges of intolerance.
Re: 101. This was a few weekends ago in three separate spots (The window of Escada, which was also broken, and two separate property developments downtown and on the Plateau, both of which had signs in French and English, only the writing was the same size).
And hey, I find it just as annoying that people, especially university students (I’m pretty sure there are laws for anyone younger about where they are/aren’t allowed to go to school), fly in, get an education and leave without ever having to leave the student ghetto or learn French. But I know just as many who’ve tried hard with the French education they’ve been given and still gotten more than a few 'maudit Anglo’s and, funnily enough, landlords who refused to give them an English contract. Wanting to read a legal document in your native language? Horrors. Don’t get me started on Mohawk students heading in from Kahnawake, many of whom learn English before French so they can communicate with other First Nations residents. One of the very few times I was dumb enough to get into a separation debate with French-Canadian friends I brought up the fact that First Nations in Quebec (though really we seem to be discussing Montreal, whose Anglo-friendliness is unheard of in most of the province) would secede from the province. They thought this ridiculous, and one friend even said that ‘Their culture is dead. They need to stop living in the past.’ Right.
I understand the reasoning between many of the province’s (though, again, this is mostly Montreal, which really is an Anglo ghetto anywhere West of St Laurent) rules and attitudes, but it wouldn’t be the first time in history the pendulum is swung too far the other way.
I have no doubt you can find some 101s in the city. Now that I think of it, there’s one near where I used to live in the east end eight years ago. Last time I drove by, it was still there.
I’ve lived in three countries, and I’ve been domiciled in the province of Quebec (Montreal, then Quebec City and now Montreal again) for ten years. I just don’t feel the pain – not at all.
In any case, we can fire conflicting anecdotes at each other all day, in the Canadian tradition. Let’s not bother.
A couple of random observations, based on my experiences as a tourist in Quebec:
Montreal is not Quebec (the province). Most people in Montreal seem to be perfectly bilingual, and I’ve never gotten the slightest bit of grief about speaking English. Montreal obviously has a much more cosmopolitan outlook and population than, say, Chicoutimi. But I never got any grief in Chicoutimi either, if it comes to that.
Understanding and speaking French does not necessarily get you very far in rural Quebec, because your chances of understanding what people are saying to you are often pretty low. I heard a French person once say that she had to ask the guy at the train station to write down what he was saying, because she couldn’t understand a word he was saying. I suppose with time you could get used to the accent, but as a short-term visitor from France or the U.S. or other parts of Canada, it’s a bit daunting.
With 101, it’s not necessarily about the law, it’s about the enforcement, which seems to come and go. Again, I don’t think the average person is all that hung up about the relative sizes of English and French on signs.
Contrary to assertion, Montreal is a terrifically tourist-friendly city. It’s not as cheap as it was when the dollar was strong, but good hotels are still a bargain relative to major American cities. The metro goes everywhere, restaurants are great, there are a million things to see and do, the people are friendly, etc., etc.
Dunnow, the language thing is sounding a lot like the Catalan and Basque in Spain. Don’t get me started on those Swiss who provide people with translated government forms… but untranslated instructions.
Well, thanks for the compliment, I guess. Strangely enough, I would’ve said it’s very un-Canadian of me. My experience is that Canadians love to bicker, bicker, bicker and throw poor-little-me anecdotes in each other’s face. Every group in Canada seems convinced that every other group is getting a better shake. The worst aspect of the Canadian character, however, is the sanctimonious attitude with regard to the United States. Man, that’s tough to swallow.
Don’t get me started. I’m getting out of this thread now.
I kind of disagree with you here jovan. Being able to get service in their language is a noble goal to pursue for francophones outside of Quebec. (When the numbers justify it.) But in Quebec, we should ensure that French remain our common language, not only the “pure laine” (to use an expression anglophones seem to like) language. I know you did mention finding work in French, but it’s still not quite enough.
If francophones in Quebec only wanted to be able to get service in their language, we wouldn’t hear any noise from anglophones and from the rest of Canada. It’s because we insist that French should be our common language (something I wholly approve of) that people protest.
Abolish Bill 101 and never build anything like Bill 102 (English Only law) or Bill 103 (Native language Only law) when there are all of them and the history of the land has been written by all of them.
Respect both sides and end the selfishness and hatred!
The land belongs to God, not you Damn French and English humans!!
Give freedom and equality to both French speaking people and English speaking people !! And build the future together !!
la_tour_to, political propagandizing of this sort (as well as religious commentary) is not allowed in General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again.
Since this thread is old, and has been revived for no good reason, I’m going to close it.