in Belgium that is. are they more adept at French and/or German than, say, Flemish or Wallonian? i’m settling a dispute here.
I’m not sure that there’s a meaningful distinction between Flemish and Wallonian int this context.
In my experience, all Belgian professionals are perfectly competent in either French or Dutch/Flemish or both, and many are also competent in English or German or both.
thanks. i think the guys in my office are arguing more as to which language is the preferred medium. let’s qualify that to the following applications:
- higher education
- national government
- commerce
- mass media.
French and Wallonian are the same thing.
Do you realize that the country is completely torn apart by the language issue, and in particular has lacked a government for more than one year because of this?
^
now that i didn’t know!
The funny thing is that many people are starting doubt the need for a government, since everything has just been going its merry way the last year…
(outsider observations)
Flemish=regional dialect of Dutch. Wallonian=regional dialect of French.
It depends on what part of the country you’re in. Most Flemings I know had to take a lot of French in school but some did it sullenly/reluctantly/purposefully poorly and put more interest into English studies (this varies) French was the ‘high class’ and governmental language in the 19th c, but now the Flemish part of the country has become economically dominant with shifts from heavy industry to information tech and the like; the Wallonians are IME less proficient with Dutch for whatever reason (I suspect because of the more industrial, slightly recessioned character of Wallonia in recent decades). So Dutch dominates all parts of discourse in Flanders, French dominates in Wallonia, and in Brussels, although ethnically majority Flemish, federal government tends to be run in French but really anything goes and politicians need to be good with both unless they’re trying to make a right-wing point (like the Vlaams Bloc or whatever they call themselves these days).
Most of the universities are in the Flemish-speaking areas but there are exceptions (esp Louvain-la-Neuve which actually originated in language/ethnic politics of the 60s/70s from what I recall, as a sort of splinter uni off of K. U. Leuven). Academics tend to be competent in both languages, although I know Flemings who get pissy when compelled to deal in French in places like the national archives. Media are regional and can be differentiated from Dutch and French stations by the accent or the word used for ‘twenty’ :).
There is a corner in the east where German is also frequently spoken but people there tend to be capable in all three languages, plus English.
IIRC, they’re actually doing better today than when they had a government. Which is kind of crazy.
Make a choice and stick with it. Don’t waffle.
In a country that is part of NATO, part of the EU, has working regional and municipal authority. How long can you leave things be before anything has to be decided on a national level?
nice replies. i can gather that while flemish is the official national language, it cannot claim to be a lingua franca (though most belgians can probably understand it.) it may be the preferred medium for any institution situated in a predominantly flemish area but other languages are preferred in other areas. my officemates say that to do business there, you have to be fluent in BOTH french/wallonian and dutch/flemish. one says most executives prefer to communicate in either french, english or german. all in all it seems wooly-pooly but this is certainly a lot better than the old days when armies marched across the country in different directions.
so last question, can’t they at least settle for a policy of bi-lingualism?
My cousin and her husband lived in Belgium for a year or so while he was working for Alcatel. Everyone in the office spoke English.
No, no, Dutch, French and German are all official national languages. They have had a bi/tri-lingual policy, but the Brussels district (in Flanders, largely French-speaking, international business/ government center) proves to be the major issue.
In my experience, the lingua franca in Belgium in English. I don’t mean that from the tourist perspective, but from the business one. When there are people in a facility from Flemish and French Belgium, Germany, the USA, and Sweden, English becomes the default choice.
thanks.
The official languages are Dutch, French and German, though the proportion of the population which has German as a first language is quite small.
In my experience, most Dutch-speakers can speak good French if required, but dislike any assumption that they can speak French, and so prefer to speak English, in a situation where either language will do. Many French speakers have limited competence in Dutch, and so English is their preferred second language.
So, bottom line, English is the most commonly-preferred second language, especially in an international context.