I’ve heard the term “Sneak Pass” in the context of an air show. What does this mean, exactly?
I’ve seen the Thunderbirds (USAF) once, but never the Blue Angels (Navy), though I’ve seen plenty of videos. Both, of course, are absolutely amazing. Seems like many of the maneuvers are very similar. Which group is better? I know that’s a really vague question, so perhaps I’d rephrase as: What aspects of the show might someone consider to be superior in one team or the other.
I notice the Blue Angels will be in San Francisco October 7-8. Does that mean they’ll perform twice? Would it likely be the same or different show?
3.1) Their official website shows their schedule, but it doesn’t provide any more detailed information. I assume that when it’s at a base somewhere, you just show up on that day (or do you buy tickets ahead of time). At the very least, one could call the base for more information. But when it just says San Francisco, how do I know where/when it is. Do I just show up at the Golden Gate Bridge at 8am or what?
Any other info/discussion about airshows in general is welcome as well.
During the portion of the show when four planes are doing formation maneuvers, one of the solos will make a pass along the show line doing a slow roll, or something like that. As everyone is still watching him, the second solo makes a low, high-speed pass in the same direction. You don’t even hear him until he’s practically right on top of you.
The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels are pretty similar. I imagine there’s a bit of a rivalry, and some people probably have strong favorites, but I don’t notice too much of a difference.
However, check out some of the teams from other coutries. Nine- or ten-plane teams seem to be common for Canada and Europe, and they use trainers. The American teams have more powerful planes and fly tighter formations, the foreign teams show a little more variety and creativity.
Probably the same show, unless one of them is restricted by weather. They can’t fly into clouds in formation, so the teams have a high show, a low show, and a flat show, depending on cloud cover on any particular day. Each show is strictly planned and rehearsed.
Can’t help you with the specifics of the San Francisco show, but I would imagine the info is on the web somewhere.
The sneak pass is a maneuver where a plane comes in at very high speed (~700 mph) at a very low altitude. The purpose is to demonsrate the stealth capabilities of the plane. Typically, unless you’ve been tipped off when and where to look for it, you won’t see or hear the plane until it roars past you.
The one Thunderbirds airshow I went to featured a series of slow passes in various formations by the 4 formation planes, and after the audience had had a few minutes to get used to them flying back and forth at the liesurely pace of probably around 300-400 knots, the formation made another slow pass, and as they were just finishing that, one of the solo planes did a high speed pass when nobody was expecting it, as a demonstation of “Tactical diversion and suprise”. Looking at various webpages, this would appear to be the “Sneak Pass”
Well, I’d have to say the Thunderbirds are better, since they’re in the Air Force, which makes them inherently superior to any mere Navy Aviator That said, I’m just a bigger fan of the F-16’s smooth sexy look, as opposed to the F-18’s more rugged mean look.
Then again, the Thunderbirds don’t have a rocket-boosted C-130 doing acrobatic maneuvers :eek:
I’d call the base and see if they know, but it might be that they do one show and just hang out the rest of the time, or they could be doing multiple shows over the weekend.
Fleet Week Calendar of Events (with individual schedules lower on the page) They also are having Team Oracle, a great single plane show, and Viper West, a single USAF F-16 that is sent out to locations where the Thundebirds are not performing. (The Navy has a similar single plane show, but I cannot remember its name.)
The Air Force has made a concious decision to use their front-line state-of-the-art fighters for their demonstration team, but for a while, due to high fuel costs, they used the T-38 Talon. I think at one point they went from the F-100 to the F-105, then ended up going back to the F-100 because of the amount of modifications the F-105 would need to be appropriate for their needs. As for creativity, how many of those guys have friggen transport planes doing acrobatic maneuvers with rocket pods attached?
But yeah, one of these days I need to check out one of those other teams.
They’ll probably be in town at least a couple days before the show. They need to practice and learn the local landmarks around where they’ll be performing.
The F-105 was in 1964 (and only flew in 6 shows, according to wikipedia), a little before my time. I saw them at least once in the T-38’s and they’ve been flying F-16’s since 1983.
Many years ago when I was but a teenager, I went to an airshow in Washington in which I saw both the Blue Angels and the Canadian Snowbirds. At the time, I thought the Snowbirds were better.
The correct answer of course is that they are both about the same. However, as someone that has been thru Navy training, I strongly disagree with the above.
For instance, how many Air Force pilots can land on the deck of a carrier? That is part of every Navy and Marine pilot’s training. Navy pilots have been flying longer than the Air Force, who started flying after WWII (remember there is still an Army Air Force, if not in name.)
I saw the Blue Angels on Memorial Day this year and the Thunderbirds a year earlier. (Demand is high enough that a location can’t get either group two years in a row, so they alternate Memorial Day shows at Jones Beach.) They give very similar shows, both very impressive. But, my impression was that the Blue Angels flew much closer in their diamond formation (reportedly 18" apart) than the Thunderbirds did, and that’s just incredible to see.
While I have lived most of my life in the shadow of the Air Force, I have to agree with you — they don’t have The Order of the Wet Diaper. That just has to say something significant about the Navy & Marine pilots.
One military guy I used to work with asked me how I’d feel if I got the chance to be in the back seat during a night carrier landing. I told him I had a gun and I wasn’t afraid to use it!
One cool thing that the Thunderbirds do that the Blue Angels don’t is the Five Card formation. Five of the aircraft fly in a formation that corresponds to the pips on a five card, not suprisingly. Nifty.
I’m not sure if it counts as being “better” but the Red Arrows (the British team) fly nine planes, so they have more complicated formations as a result.
Having served in the U.S. Navy, I have a prejudice in favor of the Blue Angels.Despite that I’m always impressed by the Canadian Snowbirds. They fly a trainer type aircraft which is much slower and I think that gives them an edge in doing aerobatics. Anyway they’re very good.
I just missed a chance to do a carrier trap. I was in VN and my brother was on Yankee Station on a bird farm. He set it up for me to visit his ship via the COD flight from Saigon, but I got hung up in the field and missed the connection. Always regretted that.
The official line I’ve always heard is 36 inches, wingtip to canopy, but there are many cites out there saying that the range is 18-36. This guy (who seems to have had some connection with the Angels) agrees that the Angels fly closer than the Thunderbirds (3- 6 feet). He also claims that the Angels have actuallly touched wingtips in flight! :eek: Sadly, the link to the picture he posted to demonstrate this is now dead.
The last paragraph in his first post describes the Sneak Pass, and claims that the Thunderbirds don’t do it. But he’s wrong about that. I’ve seen The Angels and the Thunderbirds many times, and they both do sneak passes. I got to the point that I could tell when the sneak pass was coming, and would make a point of watching the crowd: it’s great fun to watch thousands of people jump out of their shoes at once!
Also, for the record, the Angels’ C-130, Fat Albert does not do aerobatics.* It simply does a Jet-Assisted Take-Off (JATO), which is admittedly quite impressive, and flies out. But no aerobatic maneuvers.
*Or acrobatics. No airplanes do acrobatics. Gymnasts do acrobatics; planes do aerobatics. Yes, this is one of my pet peeves.
Naval and Marine aviators all start out flying the T-34 (or the new T-6) primary trainer. After getting through that they get sorted out and tracked into other aircraft. They can be tracked into helos, props or jets. The vast majority get helos, a few get props and a few get jets. As a WAG I’d say 15% go from primary into jets.
Most Naval and Marine aviators will never do the OMG Top Gun jet carrier trap at night. A very few prop guys will get carrier training (the E-2 types), and the Marine Harrier guys get a whole different carrier landing syllabus. But all of the helo guys and most of the prop guys will never see a tailhook or a catapult.
So…most Navy and Marine aviators will never land a jet on a carrier deck, just as most Air Force pilots will not (a couple dozen exchange guys every year get to, though).
This has nothing at all to do with the Blues or the T-Birds.
As a rated Air Force pilot I can say that from the shows I’ve seen the Blues seem to fly a closer formation. This is very difficult, but doesn’t necessarily make for a better show.
The T-Birds have the “crowd pleaser” moments down to a science, and for my money (none!) put on the better show.
Plus this year the T-Birds have the first-ever female demonstration pilot on tour.
That said, I’m just a bigger fan of the F-16’s smooth sexy look, as opposed to the F-18’s more rugged mean look.
