They aren’t. It’s perfectly legal to have physical requirement for jobs. Here is one for a job that requires the person to lift 50 lbs. If a woman can do that, she could have the job if she meets the other qualifications. If not, then she can’t. There are some women who can do it, I’m sure.
I’m in an office where I’m the designated heavy lifter for our admin support. It’s a favor to her/them, and I get a reciprocal consideration in kind. It’s a matter of courtesies extended and returned.
To the OP: Most women I know do not identify as feminists or discuss ‘equality’. They think men and women are different. If someone identified as a feminist, though, I do think they are a hypocrite if they think men ‘should’ tote loads because a woman tells them to.
- I don’t think you’re wrong in thinking this is unfair.
I do see women taking advantage of men do things for them they could easily do themselves. They recognize their privilege in this regard, gloat over it, and abuse it often. I’ve often heard women telling men ‘you’re the man, you carry it’, or telling their friends ‘I love being a girl, I can get guys to do everything for me’. This has been mostly among my age group, I am 24 now.
I am a woman, and I weigh 100 lbs. I can lift and carry loads of 60+ lbs with not too much effort. I put an effort into being active and lifting my own stuff, but I don’t go to the gym. If I can do it, most healthy woman can with practice (if anything they would have an advantage because most are much larger than I). And I do think it’s wrong and obnoxious to expect someone else to do it for you based on their gender. If you can’t carry the 40 lbs that you need to make things run smoothly at your job - struggle to lift 40 lbs on a regular basis, and soon it will be easy. I would never, ever expect someone to do something for me that I could possibly do myself. IMO the problem is low expectations! Of course women are far weaker than men, but all of us are only as strong as we make ourselves. If you don’t ever try to lift things, you’ll never be able to.
Unfortunately, I am often not permitted by men to lift, carry or push heavy things. To the point where we have argued over it. My boyfriend also gets dirty looks from all sorts of people if we are together and I am doing the lifting/carrying.
My claim was that either she was being sarcastic, or she was being serious and so doesn’t understand how the world works–since in general, it is not required for men to help women just because they’re men and just because they’re women. What do you disagree with?
Actually, I was talking to Superhal, dear, so do settle yourself down.
I can understand why you’d get so upset about having to carry anything for anyone though, since it’d mean you’d have to put the chip on your shoulder down for a minute.
In every office, lab and factory where I’ve worked, none of those was a daily work requirement. The only ones who moved computers were the IT guys and, if they weren’t around, the “unofficially designated computer person” of each shift (i.e., the one person in the shift who knew most about computers and was therefore least likely to blow it up); I always got rapidly inserted into the “IT aids” list and last I checked I was still female.
The heavy items I’ve had to move in labs, either they could be hugged, or we had some sort of cart. Actually, moving a gas canister using a cart is more a matter of safety (you can leave the cart parked knowing it won’t start rolling away) than of strength, as the lean-and-roll method requires very little strength. I did have a weight issue in one lab, because my boss (about 6’5" and almost as wide as he was tall) would leave the 5l bottle of sulphuric acid on the top shelf, which I could reach only with a ladder. Once I got him to leave ir at a height more comfortable for a 5’4" person, no problem.
I would like to believe that the reason he got paid more than me was educational and responsibility level rather than size, but hey, maybe I’m wrong.
Sigh, I kinda sorry I entered this thread. The rush to see things in black and white terms is really disheartening. I was trying to illustrate that its a HUMAN characteristic to see, for what seem to us to be perfectly rational reasons, why someone else should do a job which we don’t like, or are not particulaly skilled or good at. Anybody might do this without regard to gender, although the results might play out along gender lines (or racial for that matter). Now, sometimes I’ve said, in a half joking manner, ‘4 years of college, and it’s “hey Larry, get that heavy thing off the top shelf.”’
Recently I had to explain to someone that just because I have more pediatic experience than the rest of the staff, and I get along well with kids, does NOT mean that they get to dump every screaming fussy kid on me even if I already have a full load and the nurses across the hall are half empty.
Now in terms of the specific nurse I mentioned, she is NOT an idiot, and is NOT a sexist, but is someone I consider a work friend, and if she were closer to my age, and not my occasional subordinate, I’d try to go there.
What she was, was having a verbal exchange with a male pt. I was nearby, doing my own work, and didn’t think she needed my help. One of the reasons I admire her is how quickly she’s gotten up to speed in the ER, faster than I did, and she’s come farther than plenty of nurses who’ve been there longer.
So, after it was over she made the comment that I could’ve jumped in there, I’m the man and all. Was she 100% serious? I don’t think so. Was she 100% kidding? I don’t think so. Was she young (for an ER nurse), uncertain of herself and how to handle the situation, and uncertain of how much backup she could expect. I do think so, after all, pts do go off in the ER. She was doing fine, and I told her so, and I gave her my half serious speech about the testosterone differential, with the caveat that if she was in immediate danger, I wouldn’t hesitate to go beyond what my job description requires of all the nurses.
That the world works in such black and white terms, that you can make such assumptions based on as little information as you had, that it’s impossible for a woman working in a place where violence has been known to ensue to look at a male coworker differently than a female one wihtout being a sexist.
You as much as accused me of making it up, so I gave you a recent example where ‘you’re the man’ was specifically said. More often it’s about the 400 lb pt, but yeah, I feel the need to remind people that we have the same job description, and I have back trouble too. Not everday, but often enough that I’ve worked out a little speech that gets the point across and gets a laugh at the same time.
Most men I know do not identify as feminists and they think that men and women are different. And yet I believe that most of them support the idea of social, economic, and political equality of the genders. And that is the definition of a feminist.
What do you mean when you say that you are “not permitted by men” to do this? Are you physically restrained? Do you submit to their wishes?
Any woman who wants to enter a boxing match and sues for assault is a gigantic moron. There is no way that’d ever happen.
As far as having cake and eating it too, it works for both genders. Men want to be stoic and show self confidence, but many of us want to be able to show vulnerability and emotion too when the situation calls for it. I don’t want to be forced to show masculine traits 100% of the time, nor do I want to show feminine traits 100% of the time.
Nobody should be forced into rigid gender roles. However in college I was taking a class on gender identity and the teacher gave us a list of questions about our personalities. At the end, the results were graded and we were given scores of 1-5 with one extreme being extremely masculine, the other extremely feminine, and 2-4 a mixture with leaning one way or the other. The women got scores all over the board, but none of the men got a score beyond 1-3. She said that that happens in every class, men only get scores that are at least 50% masculine. Not necessarily because everyone fits that description, but because of social stigma causing people to hide/repress those parts of their personalities.
You’d assume she would’ve had at least one really flamboyant gay person in one of her classes though.
That’s something I’ve encountered only in the UK and the USA. I’ll get to a door at the same time as a man; spatial configuration makes me the “puller,” therefore according to the way my papa raised me I open the door… and he’ll get his body in the middle of the doorway, pushing the door, saying “ladies first.” He’ll be blocking my passage somewhat, rather than easing it; that’s when I don’t have to jump back to avoid being hit. Other times, I’ll be doing something like, say, add paper to the photocopier, and the nearest man (who may be 10 yards away) jumps in and takes the pile of paper from my hands… then can’t figure out where and how it goes in.
Am I physically restrained? Well, no. But playing tug-o’-war with the papers results in a lot of paper on the floor and if I refuse to go first through the door we can be there for quite a while. Normally on doorways I give up on the third set of “ladies’ first.” I’ve made it clear that I actually find that behavior offensive, but I may as well be barking at the moon.
Nothing I’ve said is incompatible with the non-“black and white” thing you said–that she was not 100% serious and not 100% kidding. That you would assume I must be thinking in “black and white” terms betrays a bit of “black and white” thinking on your own part.
ARRGH!
Can we please stop talking about whether women are as strong as men?!?
A) It’s a pointless argument
B) Any man who thinks so is likely wrong.
This is a joke, right?
Please explain the middle ground in this post, because it’s too subtle for me.